Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2011 17:03:43 GMT
I have the bulk of my training in eastern martial arts. I did take fencing for a year before I got shipped off to another post and I never found a convient place to take up the sport again. I loved fencing even more so then kum do.
What blade types most clostly resemble, or usable, that a foil fencer would feel comfortable using?
Edit: I thought of easy one as the Rapier. But they seem.. heavyish compared to the sport style of fencing. Just checking to see if there was something more in line.
|
|
|
|
Post by LittleJP on Jan 27, 2011 17:19:41 GMT
Smallswords. Foil was used to train in their use.
|
|
|
|
Post by adtharp on Jan 27, 2011 17:26:21 GMT
JP hit it on the nose, smallswords are the historical ancestor of the foil. But a foil is lighter than even the lightest smallsword, so you may have trouble finding one that handles just like a foil. If you are looking for a modern reproduction, one the best and cheapest is the Hanwei Scottish Court Sword.
|
|
|
|
Post by Elheru Aran on Jan 27, 2011 19:22:57 GMT
The rapier would actually have been closest to the epee in use. I've heard a theory that the (fencing) saber is actually a descendant of broadsword fencing or the pallasch, rather than the curved cavalry saber... not sure how much credence to give that, but I can see it.
Fencing wise, those blades are almost always going to be much lighter than actual swords unless you're using something like a Hanwei Practical blade. There's just not really much way to get around that, and you may have to 'upsize' your sights... on the other hand, if you train with a heavier blade, you'll find yourself being able to just whip around the lighter ones like crazy!
|
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Jan 27, 2011 20:43:36 GMT
Why do I think this post needs, not more cowbell, but more Dave Kelly?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2011 21:22:14 GMT
I dont know who Dave Kelly is.
Thanks for the responses guys. I really appriciate you giving me an actual model to look up so that I know what ya'll are talking about. I live in a big city, I wonder why fencing grours are so hard to come by?
|
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Jan 27, 2011 21:27:02 GMT
Foxtrot:
My personal theory is that we're freaks. We set ourselves apart from mainstream Western society in maintaining an interest in our history, our magnificent, petty, bloody, amazing history. My own knowledge of history is spotty (at best!) but I can place Charles Martel on the right continent, at least.
Dave Kelly is a member here, by whose opinion regarding late military blades and fencing I regard as authoritative, or as authoritative as we get here, anyhow.
|
|
|
|
Post by adtharp on Jan 27, 2011 22:26:24 GMT
Elheru: The fencing saber came from the dueling saber of the late 1800's. Essentially, there are two varieties of saber, cavalry sabers, and those used by infantry, which tended to be quite a bit lighter. The dueling saber was the civilian response to these military weapons. They were generally pretty light and actually not far off from a fencing saber. There are not a lot of these left. See the works of Alfred Hutton to see the missing link between heavy sabers and current fencing.
I think the idea that you are referring to with the rapier/epee connection is single time v. double time. In epee you generally fence single time, meaning that you parry and riposte in the same action, whereas with foil, you parry and then riposte in a separate motion. Although it is true that both rapier fencing and epee fencing use single time, that is about where the similarity ends. Dueling epees really where about like the epees that we use today, just with a sharp tip.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bogus on Jan 28, 2011 1:10:05 GMT
Smallswords are definitely your best bet, as others have said. The Hanwei Court Sword looks like a good choice, as well as the Washington Sword if you're wanting something in-between (epee-style fencing blade but built like a smallsword). Cold Steel offers one that is by all accounts pretty good, but I'm not sure you really get anything more for the $60+ price difference aside from a more "black and white" style. There isn't much on the market between these and the $500+ stuff from outfits like Del Tin and A&A, unfortunately.
Smallswords are a derivative of the rapier, of which I'm a big fan; I would look at those too. Bear in mind though that while all of these "real" swords are going to be a fair bit heavier and a bit less agile than the sport epee you're used to, the rapiers are more so since they're basically skinny longswords and behave accordingly.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 28, 2011 1:30:51 GMT
Hey Foxtrot: First off. If you a yearning for a foil, why aren't you just going to an FIE fencing supply store and buying a foil training kit? Next; I'd suggest going to the FIE directory and finding local club and college affiliate programs, in hopes of scoring a fencing group you can train with. ( Once upon a time the William and Mary fencing master let me workout with his team. ) You might find a local adult salon; but they charge for their services. This medium here deals with retail historical recreations. The small sword equivalents are a somewhat limited market. If you are interested you can check out Darkwood Armory. They will custom build a sport sword any way you like. (and/or can afford ) ( The saber sidebar is tempting to engage, but off point to the posters request. ) ( I haven't kept touch with the collegiate scene. Looking at a few cites like the NCAA, I was appalled to see how few schools even have club programs any more. It is a dilema. Learn Rapier - join SCA.  ) |
|
|
|
Post by MEversbergII on Jan 28, 2011 2:18:00 GMT
Foil and epee were used to train dueling weapons, I think just called foils at the time. They were sharp at the tip, and could well puncture you.
M.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 15:51:32 GMT
I am going to break up your points a tad bit, this is to better answer. I very much appriciate your response to my query.
I still have my practice foil in hopes of finding a place to actually practice. I was looking for a weapon that was similar to what I learned, but less sporterized.
For living in a big metro area, the fencing seems to be very sparse. And I am more then happy to pay for lessons. I feel that all experts, be they sword makers or martial experts, should be paid for their time and expertise.
Thank you for trying to stay on topic to my request. But everyone answered my question I had. Please feel free to wax intelectual in regards to fencing as I would find that very interesting.
I dont know what SCA is.
|
|
|
|
Post by adtharp on Jan 28, 2011 16:36:26 GMT
Foxtrot, PM me with your location. I am a professional fencing coach at Indiana University, and I have contacts all over the place, so I might be able to help!
Dave: I also am very interested in your thoughts on the saber, I focus most of my intellectual pursuits on the evolution of the saber, so I am curious to your thoughts!
The SCA is the Society for Creative Anachronism. In general, they are a group of people who like to relive various time periods in history, mostly focusing on the late middle ages and early renaissance. You might seek out a group near you - I find their weapons training to be very hit or miss, some of them are very focused on historical techniques, others are mostly interested in hitting each other with sticks. There is also the ARMA (Association for Renaissance Martial Arts). They are typically better, but in general a little snobbish.
|
|
|
|
Post by BryanW on Feb 5, 2011 11:21:32 GMT
I would vote for smallsword as well although I'm biased and I like to appreciate the fundamental differences between historical swordplay and sport fencing. I disagree with the Hanwei Court Sword though. At over 2 pounds it's way too heavy for smallsword use. Cold steel I've never tried but it's a sharp, stiff blade so you'll need to modify it if you plan on using it to fence with and also is a little on the heavy side. I don't know anything about the Washington Sword but in general I would be careful about learning to fence with any blade not meant for fencing since even if you dull it and put a nice rubber tip on the end, if it's stiff enough it still can be a problem and smallswords were typically stiff little blades.
A&A would be my "go-to" for a smallsword but if you're on a budget I can see why you may want to consider other options. BKS who I recently placed an order with also has been doing smallswords as well and probably could work something out for you. If you're considering Del Tin, just do A&A. In the past there was a decision but now that Del Tin has increased their prices again I can't justify not spending the extra money and getting the real deal. I haven't tried them but I've heard Smiling Fox Forge had some more reasonably priced things. Darkwood Armory (as opposed to Darksword Armory) also had some options for smallsword though they looked fairly expensive as well.
The big problem with smallsword is it's not as common as something like rapier so finding fellow fencers, options for practice weapons, and instruction may be more difficult, depending where you live and what's around you.
|
|
