Makoto Pat
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Post by Makoto Pat on Jan 14, 2011 5:15:06 GMT
I have some training...but I am always willingly and eager to learn more. History, practical, weird,etc... What books are out there, or sites, on knife fighting or defense? I mean aside form he brings a knife...you bring a gun type methodology. Again my training is hoge-poge or bastardized as I like to say. I like simple and fast. But i am in the mood for new stuff to keep my brain working.
I know this is the best place for good and honest advice and great chatting.
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Post by MEversbergII on Jan 14, 2011 7:42:24 GMT
There's a number of fechtbooks in publication that cover dagger fighting, which is somewhat applicable. There's a bunch of little manuals on knife defense, from civilian to military. If you're looking for something to do with friends with rubber training knives these are pretty good. Basically dueling with knives.
Now if you're looking for self defense...well, unfortunately that's a tough one. What I have seen by being in the wrong place at the wrong time and heard from cops, reformed thugs and the like, a "knife fight" is pretty much a fist fight where one guy plunges a knife into the other pretty fast before the stuck guy is aware there's a knife fight going on. Makes most of those books pretty useless overall, especially considering all of the real counters you can do to incoming knives are unarmed counters anyway.
Stay safe!
M.
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Makoto Pat
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Post by Makoto Pat on Jan 14, 2011 15:38:03 GMT
Yes. I understand the knife fight is ugly...I am looking for something to do for fun with friends or alone. Dagger dueling might be it. My first Sensei said if you fight a knife you will get cut...if you fight a gun you will get shot...here...this might help you survive. That's what he would say every time we did weapon defense. It actually saved a USMC friend of mine...but he was pretty cut up...the other guy was broken up even worse. I personally never want that kind of war story. Thanks for your response. Hey take a look at this thread when you get a chance viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1828I would like to see what you think about this.
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Post by Bob The Great on Jan 15, 2011 0:48:56 GMT
I picked up this book a while back, and I would recommend it as a good modern interpretation of fighting with and against a dagger/kitchen knife. www.amazon.com/Medieval-Renaissa ... 961&sr=8-1 It's straight-forward and easy to understand, and I think the author does a good job of reinforcing the speed and force with which things can happen in a self-defense situation, despite the necessarily static positions shown in the fechtbuchs. He emphasizes good timing and body mechanics and often states that if you can't make a certain technique work at near full power and speed, then it won't work for you when you need it, and you need to change the way you're doing it. He shows similar techniques both armed and unarmed and draws many parallels between them. One thing I haven't heard anywhere else is the difference between a planned fight (a duel, as he calls it) where both fighters know they are about to fight, and an unplanned attack that one fighter must defend himself against. In the duel, he claims, fighters are generally more cautious and more prone to feints or quick harrassing attacks, and will avoid fully committing unless they're sure it's safe. By contrast, he says, an attacker intending to surprise an unsuspecting or defensively positioned victim almost always fully commits and attacks in the fastest and most direct way he can, hoping to end the fight before the victim even realizes he's truly under attack. I'm not sure how true this is in every case, but the author has some impressive-sounding sources to back him up, and I can certainly see the applicability of his techniques to a viscious and sudden attack rather than an organized knife duel where the opponents dart in and flick their blades at each other until someone loses too much blood. It's certainly best if you have a partner to practice the techniques with, as most of them rely on positioning yourself properly in response to the attack.
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Makoto Pat
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Post by Makoto Pat on Jan 15, 2011 2:05:59 GMT
I think this is true...In an attack you are hit unaware and hard. And it a sparring match or duel people start out much more defensively...feeling each other out...and searching for openings. Thanks I added it to my wish list with survival books for the downfall of civilation.
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Sébastien
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Post by Sébastien on Jan 17, 2011 1:43:03 GMT
There's one thing I could suggest, it's not a book, but I think it could be of some use to you.
I own a Cold Steel DVD set, ''Warrior's Edge''. It is about knife fighting. It has some serious flaws** but also many things that you would like. It includes many basic drills and tricks, and more complex moves for knife fighting. It also comes with many hints and suggestions about how to spare and train in an efficient and safe way. It can be fun to watch and IMHO it offers many helpful hints for knife-sparring. If you want to buy this DVD set, I suggest you try to find it for the lowest cost possible, it isn't worth more than 60-65$.
** THe DVD has a few serious flaws, IMO. It doesn't offer much advice about the other sides of knife fights (for example, the many legal aspects of this subject, and how not to get into this kind of situation). The trainer's viewpoint is purely tacticool boasting (for example, Lynn C. Thompson often says that it is better to fight with a large, full-lenght survival knife, which is a very unrealistic thing to do IMO). Also, the clips sometime feel like a one big, shameless Cold Steel promo (one part is about the type of knives commonly seen on the street; in that part the trainer shows most of CS catalog ...).
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Makoto Pat
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Post by Makoto Pat on Jan 17, 2011 3:03:52 GMT
I agree that you are more likely and legally going to use your folder clip knife as it is accessible. But it sounds furn and worth looking into. I guess I am looking something a little more light-hearted or goofy but with some credibility. Plus I just got a new TRAIL MASTER!! I have some basic old school bowie techniques but some new ones would be good...and I recently discovered I am a CS fan...about 50% of my collection is CS...swords excluded.
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Sébastien
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Post by Sébastien on Jan 17, 2011 3:30:40 GMT
Warrior's Edge can be goofy and light-hearted at times, although I am not sure it is how Lynn C. Thompson intended it to be Your new Trail Master would be the kind of knife that he'd advise you to ''EDC'' ... Unless you are taking a walk in Kabul, I don't think that would be useful and doable ...
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Post by MTmind on Jan 17, 2011 3:40:34 GMT
If you are looking for something on interest value I found this little video to be great from a martial artist perspective.
I think that this was originally posted on the old forum, took some time to find again.
Hope that this is of some interest to you as well.
MT
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Sébastien
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Post by Sébastien on Jan 17, 2011 4:17:52 GMT
Awesome clip MTmind, thanks for posting it here. I now remember seeing it on the old forum.
Some of these moves look very simple yet very efficient.
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Post by Ceebs on Jan 17, 2011 8:45:08 GMT
I just got back from training where we were going through some of the dagger plays in the Codex Wallerstein. Very efficient and very fun.
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Makoto Pat
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Post by Makoto Pat on Jan 18, 2011 2:17:00 GMT
I am not aware of 'EDC'...But as far as fighting knives go I think the large bowie fits in with my aggressive escrima and cutting techniques (I have already put down quite a few bottle of water and a few milk jugs. Not to worry I recycle.), but for self-defense I have spray, a cane, and last of all a folder clipped on. As for more fun and practical training I have the CS Peace Keeper and Mini-Urban Pal. The Mini Pal is clipped on my key along with a kubaton. I am looking for something very similar if not like Warrior's Edge. I had heard L.C. Thompson done well against the Dog Brothers. It looks good. I could especially use footwork work...or my footwork needs work.
Thanks for the vid I remember it from the old site...thanks for your time looking it up.
Thanks to for the dagger info. I will look up the Codex...I have not heard of it before.
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