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Post by Wes on Dec 17, 2010 8:25:41 GMT
I rarely shoot; mainly because we have no local firing range. I'd have to drive to Little Rock which is about an hour away. Because of this my gun generally sits faithfully in it's locked case mounted to the side of my bed fully loaded and waiting. I've often wondered if that is bad for the magazines being compressed all the time like that full of shells. Any thoughts?
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Post by templar on Dec 17, 2010 11:57:28 GMT
Wes: it is commonly thought, to the point of "I know it's true", that mag springs compress when left loaded. Two thoughts: one,it is a good idea not to OVER stress the spring by having a full load in the mag (particularly high cap mags). Fill it and jack a round into the chamber (or, if that bothers you, download one round), two, IF (big if) you are talking about a quality mag, not some cheap piece of...stuff, there is no evidence of spring failure being a problem. In theory, it seems as if it must stress the spring to leave the mag loaded for extended periods hence the habit of changing mags every so often and letting the spring "rest"; this is not a BAD idea but gives you more comfort than the mag spring. Bottom line, if you like, go ahead and change mags sometimes, but don't worry if you don't. More important, take that time to drive where you must to fire that weapon at least every few months; it will move the spring, get rid of old ammo and, most importantly, keep you familiar with the weapon you keep at your side. You will build your confidence in yourself and your weapon, it will also make sure your ammo is what your weapon likes (if not-e.g. jams, try another kind), and force you to clean and oil your weapon (necessary if you are going to fire it and then let it sit). As folks say around this forum, my .02.
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Post by Wes on Dec 17, 2010 12:43:30 GMT
Thanks, Templar. Lots of great info
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Post by chuckinohio on Dec 17, 2010 13:40:24 GMT
Buy an extra mag or two. The above info is sound advice, but I do like to cycle which mag I leave loaded with the weapon. Not disputing you Templar, just stating my preferences and habits.
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Post by templar on Dec 17, 2010 15:09:13 GMT
No problem Chuck, I do the same thing; it just feels good. I didn't want Wes (or others) to be concerned that, if they didn't, they were risking weapon failure.
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Post by chuckinohio on Dec 17, 2010 15:18:28 GMT
Truth be told, I do it just to do it. Change out some rounds, inspect the mag , give the blaster a once over, I feel like I did my bit for home security
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Post by demonskull on Dec 18, 2010 12:11:44 GMT
Thanks Guys, good info. I too change out my mags periodically but the large capicity mags I just leave empty and have only kept limited quantity of lower capacity mags loaded at any one time for the titled reason. Now I can load up a few of the large capacity mags and leave out 2-3 rounds.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Dec 19, 2010 3:31:10 GMT
I have never had a problem with mag spring compression (18 years). This includes handgun and rifle magazines: Glock, S&W, H&K, SIG, Colt, Bushmaster, Rockriver Arms, Springfield Armory, Armalite, FEG, numerous military contract magazines, foreign and domestic. Has anyone here had such a problem?
On the other hand I have experienced feeding problem with rifle magazines. So, it is critical to thoroughly check out (disassemble and tune if necessary--adjust the follower) your magazines. I also usually download my magazines by 10% not out of fear of spring compression, but to guarantee reliable magazine seating/insertion. Some AR15 fully loaded 30 rounders don't have enough spring compression left to permit easy seating.
[Addendum: The same is probably true for many "Crime Bill" compliant magazines which hold no more than 10 rounds. That 10th round always seems to fully compress the mag spring and top out the magazine. (Can't have an 11 round magazine!?) I have always found my fully loaded diminished-capacity [Glock] magazines to be very hard to seat fully. With the sunsetting of that monstrosity, save your 10 rounds for visits to California, if you must go,]
My $.
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Post by chuckinohio on Dec 19, 2010 12:21:00 GMT
Personally I have never had a problem with mag springs, nor do I have first hand knowledge of anyone who has. It has always been a -better safe than sorry- thing for me. I have experienced the first round stoppage from a fully loaded mag. Too much tension and a failure to feed.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Dec 19, 2010 21:47:37 GMT
Both handgun and rifle?
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Post by ShooterMike on Dec 26, 2010 16:21:20 GMT
My experiences exactly mirror Larry's. I load 28 or 29 rounds in my 30-round rifle mags. But my pistol mags stay loaded to full capacity for 1911, 2011, and Glock magazines. I have never had a failure. I "load 'em and leave 'em" until they get shot. I have found 1911 magazines that stayed loaded for 20 years, and they never failed and are still in use. Then again, I have "used up" the springs in quite a few magizines from loading and shooting a lot in practice. I once read an interesting scientific article on spring fatigue and failure. The basic assertion was that springs should be viewed as any other mechanical device. When they are over-compressed they fail immediately, at least to a degree. They can slowly degrade when at full conpression, but with quality springs it takes a long time. The operative word being "quality", which is sometimes not as good in some manufacturers' springs. But what really "uses up" magazine springs is compressing and releasing the load (loading and unloading). It also stated definitely that a spring cannot "rest" and return any of its lost strength. That would be like cutting a lot with a sword, until the blade fatigued. Then hanging it on the wall for a while to "rest" so the blade would regain some of its strength and be flexible and strong again. That info has mostly proven itself in my experience. I've had identical magazines in use where the ones that were loaded with carry ammo and mostly left alone have worked fine for a dozen years of more. During the same period several identical magazines have gone through 3-4 springs apiece from everyday practice on the range. My conclusion has been, springs wear out from the magazine being loaded and unloaded (compression and partial release cycle), whether being fired in the gun or manually unloaded. And that staying loaded mostly doesn't affect the strength of the springs, though a fully compressed spring will loose power more quickly than a partially compressed spring (all magazine springs are partially compressed when the magazine is empty). So with that, I have "carry mags" and "practice mags". The carry mags stay loaded, while the identical "practice mags" get run through the ringer to show me how long I can expect each mag to last. Addendum - I have had varied experience with different springs. But I have found that the replacement chrome silicon springs from ISMI ( www.ismi-gunsprings.com) have always outlasted any other type of springs for use in magazines. I've never been able to wear out these springs. Just in case anyone is looking for replacement springs.
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Post by chuckinohio on Jan 8, 2011 13:12:24 GMT
Yes from both, and an explanation is in order.
Predominantly it is in pistols, box stock 1911 GI model autos to be precise, and it always happens with generic mags. The round will snub on the barrel ramp and with the spring tension the slide can't override it and feed the round. Hardball and HP rounds alike. Usually a bit of time flaring the chamber, inserting a Chip McCormick mag, and the problem goes away. I found the Colt Delta Elite 10 MM to be a finicky eater also. Every mag for that weapon had to have the feedlips flared a bit to get it to feed anything other than FMJs reliably. Otherwise it would snub the ramp every time.
With rifles, it has happened in of all things an AK if you can believe that. Now granted it was a .223 Norinco AK, and not one of Mikhails beloved, but still an AK. That rifle was one of the most finicky POS I ever laid hands on. IT was ALL mag related. AR-15s suffer from it to an extent also, but a quick look at the feed lips of the mag will quickly reveal the problem. Being aluminum, they ding esily and get your rounds feeding all crazy and they will hang up on the locking lugs.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Jan 9, 2011 16:25:23 GMT
I've not had problems with magazine feed lips (I usually do not choose magazines that have obvious defects in this area). However, the chief magazine problem I have had is with correct follower orientation. Let me explain. If the front of the follower (the end closest to the chamber) is lower than it should be and does not rest level w.r.t. mag body (or even slightly biased high), there is a tendency for rounds stripped off to slam into magazine body (not leaving the magazine). In some rifles, even though clearing the mag body, some rounds can hit below the feed ramp.
MAGAZINE TUNING
Most of these problems can be corrected by "tuning" the magazine. This requires magazine disassembly and some spring "tweaking":
(1) remove floor plate (2) extract follower and spring (3) remove spring from follower (remember how it attaches) (4) thoroughly clean follower and spring and relube spring (5) thoroughly clean inside of magazine; remove big chuncks of debris, but leave mag body "dry" (6) "tweak" the spring coil end that is below the low end of the follower: gently expand the spring coils You don't need to go nuts here. You may not perceive an increase in the overall length--that's ok. (7) reassemble the magazine (8) check to make sure that the follower depresses and returns level. It's important that the front of the follower does not lag behind. Disassemble and repeat until the problem is corrected.
That's it. I've done this for all used AR and and many AK47/74 magazines I've pruchase.
Each magazine (tuned or not) should be tested in the rifle intended for use to make sure that it (1) feeds reliably and (2) holds open the bolt on those rifles with such a feature.
Although I prefer testing magazines at leisure at the range, I have tested new magazines in a class environment. This can be a good test of your failure drill skills--getting that rifle up and running as quickly as possible. If it is a mag problem, MARK THE MAG and leave it so marked until the problem has been corrected.
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Post by chuckinohio on Jan 10, 2011 14:47:22 GMT
You know, it occurs to me that I should have already known what you posted above Larry, but apparently I completely ignored follower orientation in diagnosing some of my problems. I would adjust the feed lips to release the round sooner to clear the ramp, when all I actually needed to do in all likelyhood was adjust the follower attitude.
Thank you.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Jan 11, 2011 3:30:35 GMT
You are welcome, chuck in ohio. I hope it is helpful. And I like your title for it better than mine: "follower attitude." Some do have attitude! I looked up Casstown, OH. It's not too far from Dayton--a familiar reference point. I have family in Hamilton, west of Cincinnati. Are you familiar with Findlay, OH? I lived there one summer (1973) while on summer break from college (UCSB). I took a sales job there and spent the summer getting to know the outlying regions--beautiful, quiet country, except when a tornado or two swept through town. Exciting business for a left-coast city boy.
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Post by Alexander on Jan 11, 2011 11:00:47 GMT
Hello all great forum, glad to see there is discussion about modern arms as well. I think that some mags are just possessed by evil spirits and no matter what you try they never work right. I second the the advise on keeping mags less then completely full to extend life. Also using high quality mags, have had great success with factory Colt mags in my 1911. I remember reading in the early 90s or late 80s about a stash of German WWII mags found in a barn that were fully loaded 40+ years and were still fully functional.
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Post by chuckinohio on Jan 13, 2011 14:53:35 GMT
I work just north of Hamilton. Our Railyard is between Middletown and Monroe, directly south of the AK Steel Middletown Works. I've been to Findlay several times as it is home to Jaquas Fine Guns. The only time in my life that I ever got to handle a Holland&Holland made double rifle was at Jaquas, and it was a .500 Nitro to boot. Krieghoff, Perazzi, and Berettas oh my :shock:
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