|
Post by Aaron W on Nov 5, 2010 23:48:19 GMT
Good afternoon SBG forumites! First and foremost, I'm not sure this is the right section for my post, so feel free to move it to the appropriate location if I happen to have missed it. Secondly, I want to say right now that this is not my design, it's something I'd love to own and see brought into reality if it's at all possible, hence why I'm posting here, to see what more expierenced weapon holders think. Sadly, I don't have any stills of this weapon, but I have this ( )! If you watch the whole thing (or you can pause @ 1:02, 1:17, 1:20 & 1:43 to name a few of the good shots of it), I'm refering to the spear type weapon that the human male is utilizing. It seems to be a modified spear if you will, having more of a 1/3 double edged tip than a smaller normal spear end. So far, the closest representation I can find of this weapon is a Japanese yari, but the tip on this is still too short as well as having a thinner shaft than I would like. So now the two big questions, do you guys think this is a viable weapon & do you know anywhere I could get it custom built? To me, (an admitted newb in terms of weapon making) it seems viable. I would imagine if you attatch the bladed end on the staff similar to the manner in which you would attatch a spear head, you would have a pretty durable weapon. Another option (again, in my inexperienced head) would be to make the bladed end the full tang or almost the full tang of the staff, adding the needed durability to be able to swing this around like a sword as well as thrust like a spear. All constructive comments are very much appreciated. This weapon for some reason, to me, calls out for it's amazing versitility, which is a pretty big plus in my mind if you were to ever need it on a battlefield of any kind. I realize the wanting of a video game weapon is a slightly teenager desire, but as I said, this weapon seems to call out to me, hence my need to make it a reality. edit: apparently this weapon is something based in reality! It's known as a Svardstav, which is a scandinavian weapon that translates to sword-staff in english
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Nov 6, 2010 0:45:35 GMT
I was about to say that it similar proportions to a Chinese Pudao ( www.classicmartialarts.com/profe ... /pudao.jpg), but it looks like you found something closer. The simplest option would be to probably get a bare sword blade (like one of the Hanwei Tinker replacement blades), a staff (Kult of Athena sells a 7' Ash staff for their spearheads), cut it down to size, and then mount it yourself. That would be simplest and cheapest, but it wouldn't be very pretty.
|
|
|
Post by Pete S on Nov 6, 2010 2:58:05 GMT
I have to say I rather like the looks of that spear as well. Off-hand I would say it would make a fairly viable real-world weapon, with some modifications, of course. i.e. get rid of the blade cutout and the glowy orb thing. I have an old discontinued Windlass long bladed hewing spear that has a 22" blade that I used to have mounted on a 4' staff that made for a similarly proportioned weapon. I felt it handled fairly well. It is worth noting that that spearhead was non-historical and I am at a loss to find many similar weapons from any culture. Searching for svardstav doesn't turn up much, an african lion spear seemed the closest match to me, but there the blade is too long. I have also seen some examples of unusually long yari heads, but I don't know if they mounted them on inversely short poles. There seems to be a number of polearms of similar dimensions (albeit typically with longer shafts) but as far as I can tell most of them are single edged. This makes me suspect that a single edged blade would be safer and/or more effective. As to getting one custom made, I would recommend making a good sketch based on the video and, depending on the complexity and detail desired, inquire with Fableblades or Odinblades for a highly detailed piece (admittedly I've never seen either make a polearm...just explain that it is a sword with an extended hilt ); or Scorpion Swords and Knives for a simpler more affordable piece (and they DO make spears!) As Vincent mentioned, the cheapest method would, of course, be to do it yourself. Just find a sword blade you like and mount it on a short staff!
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Nov 6, 2010 3:46:48 GMT
Actually, the orb would serve as a counterbalance for the extra long blade, so perhaps changing it to something else and making it somewhat smaller, and you'd be good. The cutout, however, would definitely have to go. Those exist purely on fantasy blades. On a side note, I don't think the Hewing Spear has been discontinued; MRL is still selling is, as is KoA, which is good, because I want one.
Speaking of doing it yourself, I may end up doing just that because I happen to like sword-staves. As I mentioned, the Hanwei Tinker replacements would probably be the cheapest, but there's also the Albion bare blades; there's a Celtic Longsword blade they make that I've got my eye on for 175$ (heat treated).
|
|
|
Post by Pete S on Nov 6, 2010 4:55:43 GMT
My experience with magical orbs of glowing power is that they are actually quite light or even weightless, hence my dismissal of it...but you are right that a counterbalance of some sort is in order. As to the hewing spear, I was referring to an older model which was a bit more sword-like...see pic attachment, the current hewing spearhead is on top, the old one is on the bottom...both are currently undergoing remounting. I've been toying with the idea of mating a Tinker fullered bastard blade to a 3 foot hilt for awhile now. I was envisioning it as a sort of western nagamaki. Too many projects on my plate at the moment...maybe next year. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by sam salvati on Nov 6, 2010 15:52:22 GMT
I like that sword hilted axe better!
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Nov 6, 2010 16:28:15 GMT
Hehe, yeah, they usually are pretty weightless. Still, if you wanted something similar in appearance, perhaps you could fashion a counterbalance out of amber or something similar and then wrap it in blackened steel. I think that'd look pretty awesome.
Ah, gotcha. I personally like the newer one better since that older one looks a little off; maybe it's just the gap between the cross-piece and the main blade.
Now that's odd, I was considering the same blade for this particular project, but I figured the one handed blade (not the viking one) would be better. Of course, it all depends on how much I can make it for since I have two projects of exceptional importance to me to pay for first (once I get the money) before I can do something like this.
|
|
|
Post by Aaron W on Nov 6, 2010 20:17:37 GMT
I'm glad you guys seem to be on the same page as me . I too was thinking about the orb on the end of the staff part as a counterbalance to the rest of the blade on the other end. And yes, the cutout it something that I don't like personally anyway, so I would expect that part to be gone. Honestly, in terms of doing it myself, I'm not quite as worried about getting the blade down as the staff. I'd want it to look like a staff, not a bo, if that makes any sense. In my mind it'd need to have the appropirate width to work. I was also thinking of doing something like the black iron to hold the counterbalance in. The question is, do you give the blade an extra long tang that extends into the staff, or do you attatch it as one would a spearhead?
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Nov 7, 2010 2:07:18 GMT
How do you mean? Perhaps a little knobbly and weathered and worn smooth like a walking staff? As for the tang, I'd put that in the staff and drill a hole or two through it and the tang and use something similar to mekugi, like they do on Japanese polearms.
|
|
|
Post by Aaron W on Nov 7, 2010 23:07:23 GMT
Yeah, mostly weathered & a little knobby. I don't want it to be super smooth like say a spear shaft, then it appears to be too much of a spear. Now that I've been looking around, I'm pretty certain I'm gonna end up putting this together myself, or at least gathering the pieces and having an experienced blacksmith fashion together the details for me. I took a look at those albion blanks and I liked that celtic longsword for the blade end as well. The staff I'm trying to get custom done from a woodworker I know, I'll keep you guys updated though . Vincent, I was thinking of doing that same thing, mostly because I'm not terribly familiar how euro swords are secured to their hilts. But is the tang of say the celtic longsword going to be think enough to warrant drilling holes into it and mounting menuki? Is that something that's more commonly done than I'm thinking?
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Nov 8, 2010 0:03:46 GMT
I definitely look forward to seeing how this pans out. If it turns out well, I may slide some money your way so you can talk your friend into making you another staff, since I don't have connections like that. :lol: By the way! You'll want to make the shaft slightly ovular as opposed to circular like a spear shaft to aid in blade orientation. It's not as important on a spear since its mostly a thrusting weapon, but with a sword staff, it would be.
Traditionally, all swords that I can think of off the top of my head, including Euros, (except Japanese swords) were peened, meaning the assembly is permanent, or at least very hard to take apart. Mekugi, when done right, are just as sturdy as peening, but you can disassemble it for transport, storage, or maintenance. However, to do so properly, I think the shaft would need to be two pieces cut lengthwise so you can carve out a space for the tang. By gluing them together with a sturdy epoxy, like I believe they do on modern reproduction sheaths, they become very sturdy, but you'll want to do some research on your own since I'm not 100% sure on this. As for the tang being thick enough, I believe it will most likely be the same thickness as a katana's tang, so there should be no problems there; you may want to contact Albion on that and ask them, but I don't foresee a problem.
|
|
|
Post by bloodwraith on Nov 8, 2010 2:46:56 GMT
I don't think it will work with the celtic longsword blade, the tang is far too short. There are alot of things you have to take into account when making a weapon like that, you can't just get any old pole and whack a sword blade on one end and some form of orb on the other. It would be rather tricky to balance, especially if you are wanting to spin the weapon at all. Since you are considering this as a "real world" weapon the tang needs to be at least fifteen inches long (minimum), you also have to consider what kind of wood you are going to use, how heavy the blade is, how heavy the counterbalance is so that the whole assembly rotates smoothly. I would actually epoxy and pin the blade in two or three places, maybe use a blade collar to further compress the wood around the tang (again that has to be done right or you'll have too much pressure on the wood). If you are really set on doing this I would maybe contact baltimore knife and sword and talk to them about your project. What would work even better is a blade with langets. I wouldn't go for a socket assembly as then it would look like a long blade spear rather than a bladed staff. I wish you well in your endeavours but it might be more difficult than you first considered.
|
|
|
Post by Enkidu on Nov 8, 2010 21:26:38 GMT
You know what, i saw the exact same trailer and i too thought about the feasability of such a weapon. I dont see the hilt as a wooden pole, more like a sword handle with leather and cord with a long tang underneath. And yes, the cut-out gotta go For the blade something more fantasy-ish would look better with such a package than a celtic or a Tinker... IMO. I'll think about this a bit more, after a couple of years collecting i'm drawn toward fantasy designs Sam, you really like the axe thing ? How come, whats the big selling point for you ?
|
|
|
Post by Reflingar on Nov 9, 2010 0:56:02 GMT
Hi Aaron, Maybe you've seen this: www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=1248? If not, it might be of some interest... I agree with the bastard H-T blade on a pole, would be sweet! Or even a viking one!! :shock: As for the pole, I wouldn't go for a round section but for a octogonal one, like you would find on a halberd... Good luck on this very cool project, and please keep us posted about the developments! (with pics!!!!) Ciao! Reflingar
|
|
|
Post by brotherbanzai on Nov 10, 2010 3:53:04 GMT
That is a very neat looking weapon. I'd make the tang extend all the way to the pommel/counterweight as if it were a very long sword grip. I personally would leave the design element of the cutout in, but would do it as a fuller rather than a cutout. The smaller tuning fork sword the bad guy has is nifty looking as well.
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Nov 10, 2010 5:34:17 GMT
That's a good idea, BB, but it'd mean it'd have to be custom made from the ground up, so not exactly the best for those of us on a budget. Still, that would probably make it incredibly secure, so it's definitely something to consider.
As for the tuning fork sword, I've always wondered how something like that would stand up to hard use.
|
|
|
Post by Enkidu on Nov 10, 2010 16:20:14 GMT
The tuning fork thing ? I see it as a kind of sword breaker/trapper, looks cool indeed.
|
|
|
Post by Aaron W on Nov 16, 2010 4:39:15 GMT
Just thought I'd update you guys on this little project.
Sadly, it has fallen through. My woodworking friend has yet to respond to me so I'm assuming that means she cannot/will not do it. It's a cool design, but sadly as is the case with many "video game" weapons, their real-world fesabilty is much harder to achieve. If anyone does manage to pull this off, please let me know, I'd be very interested to see the end result.
Until then, I'm gonna go back to customizing my bamboo mat katana.
|
|
|
Post by brotherbanzai on Nov 16, 2010 15:28:25 GMT
Ah, too bad. I was interested to see it made. On a side note to anyone considering making one of their own by using a ready made sword blade, I would suggest getting a blade much longer than you actually want and then cutting the shoulder way up to make a shorter blade with a very long tang. Mounting a regular sword blade with a sword length tang into a spearlike weapon is not an especially good idea.
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Nov 16, 2010 15:46:33 GMT
I was considering doing this with the Hanwei Tinker Bastard Sword blade; the tang's about 9" as is. How much would you recommend coming up on it, BB?
|
|