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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 0:31:24 GMT
As promised, thrusting tests...
The target was an old metal folding chair. The instruments of destruction were, in order:
Cold Steel Scottish Basket Hilt
Unknown Claymore
Generation2 Black Prince.
I wasn't originally going to use the prince, but when the claymore came out of the test unscathed(it's much softer than the prince) I figured we'd be fine to test it. Also, it's important to note that the first two tests(cold steel sword and claymore) are NOT powerful thrusting swords. While the cold steel does have a diamond cross section for rigidity, the tip is entirely too spatulate to get deep penetration, and while the somewhat more spear-like tip of the claymore is better suited to the thrust than the Cold Steel sword, it's very soft, but also not very sharp. I tried to take a picture of the tip to show how even a very blunt tip could pierce through the chair, but my crappy kodak point-and-shoot camera couldn't focus on it close enough to see. Just wait until I save up enough money to buy the swords I want and then save up more money to get the Nikon D80, best sub-$1000 dSLR on the market.
I carefully hung the chair on the arm of my wooden pell for the tests, then half-sworded through them. As you can see, I didn't put too much 'oomph' into the thrusts, and the chair gave quite a bit(was not reinforced)... so I'm sure hoping that medieval knightly armor was more resilient than a folding chair... I can only imagine what a properly aligned thrust could do to a somewhat sturdier target(read: Knight in plate)...
I was hoping youtube would have the videos processed by the time I finished writing the above... but it hasn't... so y'all will have to wait for the links to the vids...
Video 1: remounted cold steel basket hilt broadsword:
Video 2: Unknown claymore
Video 3: coming soon.
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Post by rammstein on Jun 11, 2007 0:41:50 GMT
Without seeing the vids, I can't tell, but I really don't see how a chair can be a subsitute for armour. Of course, I agree with you on gaps in the armour...but not plumb on the chest...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 4:58:04 GMT
Hmmm... 5 hours in and youtube is still processing... lame I say. lame.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 6:19:36 GMT
Edited: videos added
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 7:44:24 GMT
Nice work, Thaddeus. I would have liked to see how far the claymore penetrated, though. It's obvious from the chair hanging up on it that it went through farther than the Cold Steel, but how much farther? Looking forward to seeing the Prince in action, too.
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Post by jpfranco on Jun 11, 2007 10:55:33 GMT
Without seeing the vids, I can't tell, but I really don't see how a chair can be a substitute for armor. Of course, I agree with you on gaps in the armour...but not plumb on the chest... Don't forget that in the vid, the chair does not offer any resistance but its own weight. A man in armor has his whole weight plus the weight of the armor as resistance to the thrust. I believe that sword could penetrate deeper inflicting a deeper wound.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 15:22:43 GMT
I know you did not post it but after the second video I saw it on YouTube that the Black Prince Conquered all video. That is what that style of sword was to be for. What a good 4 to 5 inches it looked?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 17:45:43 GMT
Yes, after about 1AM I gave up waiting for the Black Prince Video to process and haven't had a chance to check them again yet. Thanks for posting it for me Clyde.
The claymore penetrated about 2 inches, and the black prince went through a good 4''. I'm sure I could do better at the same test if I tried it again(it didn't feel like I used the sword to it's potential in the test), though in the video you can see that the chair hung off the tip of the sword immediately following the thrust and I'm sure that's just foreshadowing some disaster like a really bent sword...
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Post by rammstein on Jun 11, 2007 21:16:30 GMT
Neat tests, but I'm afraid it tells us little about how well it will do against armour. I think it tells more about the swords than the man underneath the steel plates. Remember that armour has little similarities to a tin (or whatever...it's still soft...) chair. Armour was made to be protective. If a man in plate could suffer that type of damage, I'd take my chances wearing no plate at all. I'll see if I can get a large piece of armour grade steel and test out my shrewsbury or something...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 21:57:21 GMT
The chairs were iron actually. They have some kindof coating that makes them yellowish.
And armor wasn't meant to be impervious - such a thing is an impossibility. Did you see how the lucerne barely went in 4 inches or so? Given the padding underneath armor that's just an inch or two of penectration into flesh. Without the armor, you can be sure of a MUCH deeper penetration that's almost certainly fatal, rather than a puncture wound. Plus, armor even of mild steel pretty much precludes any possibility of being lacerated by a cutting motion. If i'm going into battle, i'll take anything I can get. I won't NOT wear armor just because it won't make me completely invincible.
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Post by rammstein on Jun 11, 2007 22:46:34 GMT
They may be iron, but they are still quite soft AND are exceptionally thin. It really doesn't say anything about armour until we see the same application...done to armour.
Besides, if swords were this effective, people would say hell no to weapons better suited for armour if they could just flick the sword point into armour.
It's a good thing armour isn't anywhere near the poor quality that chairs are.
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Post by randomnobody on Jun 11, 2007 23:09:45 GMT
Either way, I could certainly make an afternoon out of stabbing folding chairs. It does look so fun.
More info on crappy viking mount would be nice.
Should anybody feel like acquiring some real armor and throwing a sword into it, do share.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 23:24:24 GMT
Yes it's iron and softer than tempered steel. But remember the sword harness article over at myarmoury?
Maybe it's just me but it sure illustrated how the average hardness of those swords was FAR softer than anything we consider acceptable today. They were also incredibly inconsistent. It's only logical to assume that the quality of tempering done with their armor was similar.
And the chair I stabbed through was 2-3 mm thick. Not as paper thin as you imply. Believe me, I did the test.
I can also thrust through a car hood and take video of that if you'd like... it's much thicker... easily 3-4 mm in some places.
considering that full plate weight 50 lbs, and this chair weights a good 10... I don't think the full suit of armor(which has a much greater surface area than a chair) could be too terribly thick and maintain such a light weight.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 23:24:58 GMT
Oh, and I put all the info you could ever want on the crappy viking mount in the reviews section. Let me find a link.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 23:29:13 GMT
Here you go: /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=1173570372
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Post by randomnobody on Jun 11, 2007 23:45:50 GMT
Ah, of course it was in Reviews. And here I was scouring the customization area.
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