Sabres, used on foot?

Ah, I've discovered that infantry sabres based on the 1796 pattern did exist, shame no company is producing them today.
Only one handed use though, the only hand and half sabres I've found historically were essentially Grosse Messers and the like.



Looks like I'm ordering my first custom.

Hello,
Sabres on foot are very effective, if held and used correctly. Watch Cold Steel's "Fighting with the Sabre and Cutlass" DVD and you will see just how effective they can be. If you utilize effective and lively foot work and keep your sabre out in front of you in the the guard possition as taught in the dvd, it would be hard for anyone to get past your defense. And in the DVD it also teaches, besides your normal parries, guards, cuts, thrusts, etc, various grappling and disarming modes. I love the DVD and highly recommend it to anyone even remotely interested in fighting with a sabre. And you can use a one handed sabre in two handed modes also.
Freebooter,
Alabama

Hey LittleJP,
Here are two descriptions of fights with a sabre. They are from Robt. E. Howard's Conan story "Xuthal of the Dusk". While fantasy, REH did study boxing and some self defense and read immensly on such topics. So he knew a bit about it. And again, although a fantasy story, check it out. It is a pretty good description of sabre use against other weapons. And in the 2nd scene when he withdraws his sabre on the run from the guy's abdomine is a pretty good description of the curve of it helping in withdrawing and down more damage as it arcs through and out:

Two scenes from "Xuthal of the Dusk" in which Conan carries a sabre and his enemies short swords:1st scene:
The supposedly dead man was rushing upon him, eyes blazing with indisputable life, his short sword gleaming in his hand. Conan cursed amazedly, but wasted no time in conjecture. He met the hurtling attacker with a slashing cut of his saber that sheared through flesh and bone. The fellow’s head thudded on the flags; the body staggered drunkenly, an arch of blood jetting from the severed jugular; then it fell heavily.

There Conan performed a counter-cut. Rather than dealing with his opponent’s attack defensively, the Cimmerian manages to meet “the hurtling attacker with a slashing cut of his saber that sheared through flesh and bone.”

Scene 2:
A score of figures faced him, yellow men in purple tunics, with short swords in their hands. As he turned they surged in on him with hostile cries. He made no attempt to conciliate them. Maddened at the disappearance of his sweetheart, barbarian reverted to type.

A snarl of bloodthirsty gratification hummed in his bull-throat as he leaped, and the first attacker, his short sword overreached by the whistling saber, went down with his brains gushing from his split skull. Wheeling like a cat, Conan caught a descending wrist on his edge, and the hand gripping the short sword flew into the air scattering a shower of red drops. But Conan had not paused or hesitated. A pantherish twist and shift of his body avoided the blundering rush of two yellow swordsmen, and the blade of one, missing its objective, was sheathed in the breast of the other.

A yell of dismay went up at this mischance, and Conan allowed himself a short bark of laughter as he bounded aside from a whistling cut and slashed under the guard of yet another man of Xuthal. A long spurt of crimson followed his singing edge and the man crumpled screaming, his belly-muscles cut through.

The warriors of Xuthal howled like mad wolves. Unaccustomed to battle, they were ridiculously slow and clumsy compared to the tigerish barbarian whose motions were blurs of quickness possible only to steel thews knit to a perfect fighting-brain. They floundered and stumbled, hindered by their own numbers; they struck too quick or too soon, and cut only empty air. He was never motionless or in the same place an instant; springing, side-stepping, whirling, twisting, he offered a constantly shifting target for their swords, while his own curved blade sang death about their ears.

Conan, bleeding from a cut on the temple, cleared a space for an instant with a devastating sweep of his dripping saber, and cast a quick glance about for an avenue of escape. At that instant he saw the tapestry on one side of the walls drawn aside, disclosing a narrow stairway. On this stood a man in rich robes, vague-eyed and blinking, as if he had just awakened and had not yet shaken the dusts of slumber from his brain. Conan’s sight and action were simultaneous.

A tigerish leap carried him untouched through the hemming ring of swords, and he bounded toward the stair with the pack giving tongue behind him. Three men confronted him at the foot of the marble steps, and he struck them with a deafening crash of steel. There was a frenzied instant when the blades flamed like summer lightning; then the group fell apart and Conan sprang up the stair. The oncoming horde tripped over three writhing forms at its foot; one lay face-down in a sickening welter of blood and brains; another propped himself on his hands, blood spurting blackly from his severed throat and veins; the other howled like a dying dog as he clawed at the crimson stump that had been an arm.

As Conan rushed up the marble stair, the man above shook himself from his stupor and drew a sword that sparkled frostily in the radium light. He thrust downward as the barbarian surged upon him. But as the point sang downward toward his throat, Conan ducked deeply. The blade slit the skin of his back, and Conan straightened, driving his saber upward as a man might wield a butcher-knife, with all the power of his mighty shoulders…

So terrific was his headlong drive that the sinking of the saber to the hilt into the belly of his enemy did not check him. He caromed against the wretch’s body, knocking it sidewise. The impact sent Conan crashing against the wall; the other, the saber torn through his belly, fell headlong down the stair, ripped open to the spine from groin to broken breastbone. In a ghastly mess of streaming entrails the body tumbled against the men rushing up the stairs, bearing them back with it.

Sabers has no setbacks at all when used on foot. It doesn't give as much blunt trauma to the enemy, but nothing else. Curved blades are used on foot throughout history... Katana in street fights and duels was as effective as on battlefield when mounted, cutlass in the ship fights, falchions, messers... These are all curved blades used effectively on foot... Finally, there are a lot of infantry sabers from 18th century, they are just a bit shorter than cavalry sabers.

For anyone interested. www.thelanesarmoury.co.uk/shop/shop.php

If you scroll down you'll find a 1796 flank officer's sabre used (apparently) in the peninsular campaign.

Man, that 1803 Infantry sword is a beautiful sword. I bet when it was all new and polished it was magnificant!!!
Freebooter

Reflinger,
Hey Refinger,
I too wonder why repros can not be actual correct repros, instead of something close?!? You'd think that with today's technology they could make a truly "exact" copy, a true repro! I have owned several original U.S. 1860 Lt. Cav sabres and I know what configuration the blades are, how they feel, etc.. I have owned repros from Ames Sword Co., MRL and another company (Ames and MRL's are identicle; blades made in India). All the blades are about alike and the distal taper is never right. Therefore the heft, balance, and feel is not the same. An original's blade is like a 1/4" at hilt and distally tapers to the point. These repros are 3/16" at the hilt and stays abt the same till a few inches from the point. An original is rounded on the back of blade, repros are flat (an 1840 Hvy Cav sabre is flat on its back though, but also just as thick at hilt).

So, why, with today's technology, can't any of these companies get it frigging right?!?!? Dang that pisses me off!

Over the last few years I have written Boker in Germany two or three times about their records from the 1860s, telling them about a buddy who has an 1860 Lt. Cav Sabre with "H. Boker, Solingen, Germany" on the blade that his ancestor used in the Confederate Cavalry. Boker has not even had the consideration, courtesy or class and decency to write me back with an answer. I told them with today's technology it would be so easy for them to make a "real" repro of their sabre from those days. I would pay good money for a correct made one made by them or Ames. But so far, Ames' blades are made in India and the handles and all at Ames and assembled there.
Freebooter

Hey Sean,
Yep, it is beautiful. But I know where a sword is with almost an identical blade and shape, although the handle is different. Check out the attached pics of a Mamaluke sword from Legendary Arms (I think). I had one and it was so fine, so wonderfully made, and absolutely deadly (just a tad blade heavy for me). I gave it to a ladyfriend who loves swords).

Hey Reflinger,
The one I am talking about is here: www.militaryheritage.com/mamelukesword.htm . Man is it a beauty too. I have owned one but ws conned out of it by a sweet talking Southern Belle of a huzzy (Got me nowhere too! LOL!)! I intend on getting me another one one day.

Also, go to www.legendaryarms.com/uncavofpress.html . This is some sort of Union Officer's sabre, but what a beautiful sword. It is not the same as the 1803 but is very similar. I would like to have one, might just get one one of these days.
I mis'well face it, if I was rich I would have a huge "study" or "library/war room/sports room" in my house and the walls would be lined with fine swords. No cheapies, no wall hangers just for looks and no modern military presentation swords with their cheap breakable blades. All mine would be real swords. Not necessarily antiques but fine "combat Ready" repros with fully tempered, hardened carbon steel blades.
Oh well, let me hush or I would ramble on all night.
Later,
Freebooter