Kissaki-moroha-zukuri the Grandfather of katana?
Oct 1, 2010 6:22:48 GMT
Post by ineffableone on Oct 1, 2010 6:22:48 GMT
reposted from original on old forum Apr 29, 2010 with a few additional bits
Introduction
Well if you missed my thread Kissaki-moroha-zukuri sbgswordforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=japaneseswords&action=display&thread=15679 I will explain how I came to buy this sword. To keep from going on too long, I will say in short my primary blade a tai chi jian had been accidentally left in a VW trunk for 3 years in Seattle (while I had gone to the Eastcoast) and had become quite rusted. I needed a new blade! In my casual looking online, I stumbled upon Sword N Armory's Musashi Kogarasu maru after a visit to SBG and following links for the coupons. ;D
Well it was love at first sight. Not that specific model, but the style. Though I had considered buying that one and doing a major fittings overhaul.
Well, I had just moved back to the Northwet and didn't know any shops for quality swords. I also hadn't set up my bank account, so while getting my account and paypal figured out, I did research. I scoured the web for more info on this blade type learning Kogarasu maru was not really the style but a famous blade in a museum considered a national treasure by Japan. The style was actually Kissaki-moroha-zukuri which just was a description of the blade style. That helped and I searched more deeply finding many quality blades. Finally I stumbled upon ST-sword website during an image search. They had not used Kissaki-moroha-zukuri or even Kogarasu maru. Instead calling it SAI KARASU MARU. I don't know why, other than guessing miss translation.
So still waiting to get my paypal set up I started that Kissaki-moroha-zukuri thread to learn more about the style. I also had read a review here on SBG that did not favor ST-Sword so was considering buying else where. After some communication with Sheng Wengang, I felt much of the poor review had to do with translation difficulty (I don't think Sheng speaks English and uses translation software) and an upset customer. After all was said and done, I decided to give ST-Sword the chance.
Historical overview
Kissaki-moroha-zukuri seems to be a difficult style to find good information about. Much is speculation, educated and otherwise. It has been called the Grandfather of the katana, being an evolutionary step between Ken and tachi. It seems though this may not be right. More likely Kissaki-moroha-zukuri was a branch off from the evolution. One that was found too difficult to mass produce. What made it difficult is the distinctive second edge. To temper properly took more skill from the smith, and a lot more time and attention in the crafting.
Our esteemed Ichiban put forth this evolution as his speculation, and is probably fairly close to the true development.
Ken -
Chokuto - karatchi - tachi - uchigatana (strike sword, could be different lengths) - katana
Kissaki moroha zukuri tachi/ warabite / dendou tachi - kogarasu maru style tachi
Kissaki moroha-zukuri tachi were made about the same time as Chokuto style blades, circa 700-800 AD.
The Kogarasu Maru "Little Crow" is the most famous of the known Kogarasu Zukuri blades and currently in the Japanese Imperial Collection. The tang of the Kogarasu Maru is not signed but the blade is believed to have been made during the either the early Heian period (794 to 1185 AD) or late Nara period (710 to 794 AD), by the famous Japanese swordsmith Amakuni, who is said to have created the first curved Japanese sword and is believed to have lived during this period. Two other Kogarasu Zukuri blades exist from this era, but many other blades of this type have been created throughout Japanese history.
There are a few of these Kissaki-moroha-zukuri surviving and they are shrouded in mystery, speculation, confusion, misinformation, and curiosity.
The reason for the thoughts of Kissaki-moroha-zukuri being considered the grandfather to the katana may be due to the Kogarasu Maru and its accredited smith Amakuni. With Amakuni being sited as the first smith to create a curved Japanese sword and also the creator of the Kogarasu Maru puts this Kissaki-moroha-zukuri in the evolutionary path of swordsmithing to the eventual Katana. However there may be some leaps and speculation in this train of thought. We may never fully know how the Kissaki-moroha-zukuri fit in the evolution.
Initial Impressions
So lets back up a bit here. I ordered the sword on the 17th, had paypal clear on the 22nd, and my sword arrived on the 29th. Honestly not to bad. I had good communication from the seller, though his English as stated above was a bit off and took some educated guessing at times.
So like X-mas or B-day I wanted to just rip open the package, but I carefully sliced the tape with a knife. Removed a ball of tape, cut open the seam and opened the styrofoam package.
The tsuka was wrapped in shrink wrap. I carefully cut this off, knowing I was sleepy and I didn't want to cut my nice new ito.
(picture with out the saya omitted due to extreme blurriness, you will see the blade later don't worry) The blade had a thick coat of oil, looking over things I saw only one thing I would call attention to. the fuchi had some odd build up on it. I think it is plastic melted on it from the shrink wrapping. Though it could be a weld line that was not ground down in the fuchi, but I seriously doubt it. I will give it a good scrub soon and let you all know. (also after a little use, the habaki has formed a little minor scuffing where it has rubbed the saya)
I was quite happy through my sleepiness. I hopped on the computer and left a message that the blade arrived in my previous thread and headed off to get some breakfast. Of course the sword came with me. ;D
Statistics
the sword's specifications:
Blade/Nagasa Length: 28 5/8 inches including habaki
Second edge length: 11 inches usable edge 12 inches to full transition
*edited from the 27 3/4 inches to the habaki previously reported
*edited to add second edge length
Handle/Tsuka Length: 10 1/2 inches
Overall Length: 39 1/2 inches
Guard/Tsuba Width: 1/8 inches depth 3 1/8 inches wide 3 1/4 inches tall
POB (Point of Balance): aprox 5 inches from tsuba
COP (Center of Percussion): aprox at transition point for upper edge, hilt node is aprox at first mekugi (rather nice positioning for both and one must ask if done on purpose)
Weight: 2 lbs unsheathed, 2.8 lbs sheathed
ST-Sword's measurements
Specifications:
Overall: 40.6" (103cm)
Blade: 28.7” (73cm include habaki)
Handle: 10.6" (27cm)
Components
Nagasa
Tsuka
Tight silk ito (nonalternating) in a chocolate brown. Black same panels. Double pegged bamboo meguki. The menuki are golden with a flower design. They have ends that bend up slightly, and could be fixed with a different positioning, but I plan on replacing them anyways.
Found shims in the tsuka when I went to reassemble it. Not that unexpected actually, though it would have been nice not to have them.
Tsuba
Fuchi-Kashira
Simple iron matte black, unadorned. Kashira has golden Shitodome
Saya
Matte black with small subtle textured speckles of glossy black. Rattan topped with nice gloss seal. Silk sageo in barely lighter chocolate brown with a little shimmer in the light. The koiguchi, kurikata (golden shitodome), and kojiri are of buffalo born
Handling Characteristics
This sword feels great in the hand. With your hand up to the tsuba, it is almost weightless feeling. Swing is smooth with that nice bo-hi "swish" sound. The grip is nice and tight and the tsuka fits well in my hand. I am 5'9" with medium/average build and this sword handles nicely for me. Fast light and decent balance. Room for bigger hands than mine but still feels good in an average sized hand.
Test Cutting (if applicable)
Haven't done any cutting but definitely plan to and will update folks once I do.
Don't worry I will be doing some cutting soon and will post it once I do.
Cutting Update
I have sharpened up the blade. Not to extreme stupid sharp, though I will go there after I slow down on my cutting fun. I have been out cutting bottles, pool noodles, beach mats, and doing some landscaping (tree limbs etc) due to my brothers house has a quite over grown yard. It is a lot of fun to go whirling and coping through the yard with my sword. ;D
So how has the blade done you may wonder?
Bottles: of various size and hardness, are sliced through with ease
Pool noodles: sliced like butter, I thought people said these can be challenging. (tries with another blade, oh they can be challenging) I was even setting the cut pieces back on top of the cut then recutting the unconnected noodle with ease!
Beach mat rolls: Nice easy slices, lots of fun I need to get more!
Landscaping: Thumb sized and smaller branches easily cut clean many even one handed. Larger branches, up to 3 inches cut clean with good solid two handed cutting swing.
Conclusions
Pros
- unique blade design (even for the style)
- not the same sword and fittings you see everywhere
- nice subtle fittings, not overly flashy but with a good theme over all
- tight ito wrap
- good weight and feel
- unadvertised sword bag included free
- fast shipping from China
Cons
- needs to be sharpened (this is my only true issue with the sword)
- shimmed tsuka (though I don't hold it against any production piece)
- menuki need some adjustment with one end edge on each raised and the main design covered, not difficult to do, but entails needing to rewrap the tuska.
- unadorned F/K (I personally count this as a Pro, but some would not)
- no box, maintenance kit, or certificate (some people like those things)
The Bottom Line
I would grudgingly recommend this to others. I say grudgingly because one of the great things is others don't have it. ;D That said I think it is a great piece for the price. No question if someone is interested in this style I would recommend this sword to them. It is not from the standard big companies, but that itself sets it apart from them and you get a sword that reflects that. (sadly not offered by ST-swords anymore)
and on the negative side;
Definitely not the sword for everyone. It is subtle and muted. It does not have the typical look, feel or use of standard katana. Due to the second edge there is no noto for this sword. If you are not good with understanding broken misused English this is not the right seller for you.
Oh and BTW Price was $302 after shipping and insurance. So I would say it is in the $300 range the site was designed for. Sadly this blade is no longer offered by ST-Sword. I am certainly glad I got it when I did.
I am currently working on some customization for this sword, carving a new tsuka, making a solid silver tsuba, silver bullion menuki, and more in the planning buying stage. I will post up the customization when it is further along.
Lots of love laughter and light everyone!
Introduction
Well if you missed my thread Kissaki-moroha-zukuri sbgswordforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=japaneseswords&action=display&thread=15679 I will explain how I came to buy this sword. To keep from going on too long, I will say in short my primary blade a tai chi jian had been accidentally left in a VW trunk for 3 years in Seattle (while I had gone to the Eastcoast) and had become quite rusted. I needed a new blade! In my casual looking online, I stumbled upon Sword N Armory's Musashi Kogarasu maru after a visit to SBG and following links for the coupons. ;D
Well it was love at first sight. Not that specific model, but the style. Though I had considered buying that one and doing a major fittings overhaul.
Well, I had just moved back to the Northwet and didn't know any shops for quality swords. I also hadn't set up my bank account, so while getting my account and paypal figured out, I did research. I scoured the web for more info on this blade type learning Kogarasu maru was not really the style but a famous blade in a museum considered a national treasure by Japan. The style was actually Kissaki-moroha-zukuri which just was a description of the blade style. That helped and I searched more deeply finding many quality blades. Finally I stumbled upon ST-sword website during an image search. They had not used Kissaki-moroha-zukuri or even Kogarasu maru. Instead calling it SAI KARASU MARU. I don't know why, other than guessing miss translation.
So still waiting to get my paypal set up I started that Kissaki-moroha-zukuri thread to learn more about the style. I also had read a review here on SBG that did not favor ST-Sword so was considering buying else where. After some communication with Sheng Wengang, I felt much of the poor review had to do with translation difficulty (I don't think Sheng speaks English and uses translation software) and an upset customer. After all was said and done, I decided to give ST-Sword the chance.
Historical overview
Kissaki-moroha-zukuri seems to be a difficult style to find good information about. Much is speculation, educated and otherwise. It has been called the Grandfather of the katana, being an evolutionary step between Ken and tachi. It seems though this may not be right. More likely Kissaki-moroha-zukuri was a branch off from the evolution. One that was found too difficult to mass produce. What made it difficult is the distinctive second edge. To temper properly took more skill from the smith, and a lot more time and attention in the crafting.
Our esteemed Ichiban put forth this evolution as his speculation, and is probably fairly close to the true development.
Ken -
Chokuto - karatchi - tachi - uchigatana (strike sword, could be different lengths) - katana
Kissaki moroha zukuri tachi/ warabite / dendou tachi - kogarasu maru style tachi
Kissaki moroha-zukuri tachi were made about the same time as Chokuto style blades, circa 700-800 AD.
The Kogarasu Maru "Little Crow" is the most famous of the known Kogarasu Zukuri blades and currently in the Japanese Imperial Collection. The tang of the Kogarasu Maru is not signed but the blade is believed to have been made during the either the early Heian period (794 to 1185 AD) or late Nara period (710 to 794 AD), by the famous Japanese swordsmith Amakuni, who is said to have created the first curved Japanese sword and is believed to have lived during this period. Two other Kogarasu Zukuri blades exist from this era, but many other blades of this type have been created throughout Japanese history.
There are a few of these Kissaki-moroha-zukuri surviving and they are shrouded in mystery, speculation, confusion, misinformation, and curiosity.
The reason for the thoughts of Kissaki-moroha-zukuri being considered the grandfather to the katana may be due to the Kogarasu Maru and its accredited smith Amakuni. With Amakuni being sited as the first smith to create a curved Japanese sword and also the creator of the Kogarasu Maru puts this Kissaki-moroha-zukuri in the evolutionary path of swordsmithing to the eventual Katana. However there may be some leaps and speculation in this train of thought. We may never fully know how the Kissaki-moroha-zukuri fit in the evolution.
Initial Impressions
I was woken out of my fitful sleep this morning, hearing the doorbell. I rushed to the door knowing what it would be. I had trouble sleeping last night knowing my sword was to arrive today. I signed sleepily for an odd yellowish package. Seemed a bit light to my sleepy brain, but I knew what had to be in there. As my brain slowly woke I really started looking, knowing I would be writing this later.
The package was plain styrofoam wrapped in packing tape. Not too attractive. But hey I don't want people eying my sword package too much as it is shipped from China do I.
(sorry for photo blurriness I was still waking up)So lets back up a bit here. I ordered the sword on the 17th, had paypal clear on the 22nd, and my sword arrived on the 29th. Honestly not to bad. I had good communication from the seller, though his English as stated above was a bit off and took some educated guessing at times.
So like X-mas or B-day I wanted to just rip open the package, but I carefully sliced the tape with a knife. Removed a ball of tape, cut open the seam and opened the styrofoam package.
(sorry for photo blurriness I was still waking up)
A nice surprise the sword was in a nice bag. Which was not mentioned in the description of the sword when buying it. Definitely well secured and packed. Very safe in a tight cocoon of styrofoam. Eagerly I pulled the sword out opening the bag and sipping the bag off. I was greeted with another surprise.
The tsuka was wrapped in shrink wrap. I carefully cut this off, knowing I was sleepy and I didn't want to cut my nice new ito.
(picture with out the saya omitted due to extreme blurriness, you will see the blade later don't worry) The blade had a thick coat of oil, looking over things I saw only one thing I would call attention to. the fuchi had some odd build up on it. I think it is plastic melted on it from the shrink wrapping. Though it could be a weld line that was not ground down in the fuchi, but I seriously doubt it. I will give it a good scrub soon and let you all know. (also after a little use, the habaki has formed a little minor scuffing where it has rubbed the saya)
I was quite happy through my sleepiness. I hopped on the computer and left a message that the blade arrived in my previous thread and headed off to get some breakfast. Of course the sword came with me. ;D
Statistics
the sword's specifications:
Blade/Nagasa Length: 28 5/8 inches including habaki
Second edge length: 11 inches usable edge 12 inches to full transition
*edited from the 27 3/4 inches to the habaki previously reported
*edited to add second edge length
Handle/Tsuka Length: 10 1/2 inches
Overall Length: 39 1/2 inches
Guard/Tsuba Width: 1/8 inches depth 3 1/8 inches wide 3 1/4 inches tall
POB (Point of Balance): aprox 5 inches from tsuba
COP (Center of Percussion): aprox at transition point for upper edge, hilt node is aprox at first mekugi (rather nice positioning for both and one must ask if done on purpose)
Weight: 2 lbs unsheathed, 2.8 lbs sheathed
ST-Sword's measurements
Specifications:
Overall: 40.6" (103cm)
Blade: 28.7” (73cm include habaki)
Handle: 10.6" (27cm)
Components
Nagasa
A Kissaki-moroha forged-folded T10 high-carbon steel with double bo-hi.Upper bo-hi stopping 2/3rds for the upper edge to begin. Lower (centered) bo-hi extending the length, ending in a arrow/spade shaped flare mirroring the curve of the tip. Subtle hamon that runs a slow wave along both edges. Mirror polished blade. Main cutting edge is sharp (will need some sharpening soon to get a fine edge) but not extremely so, the upper edge is a fading sharp. (sharpish near the tip and lessening as it travels back)
Tsuka
Tight silk ito (nonalternating) in a chocolate brown. Black same panels. Double pegged bamboo meguki. The menuki are golden with a flower design. They have ends that bend up slightly, and could be fixed with a different positioning, but I plan on replacing them anyways.
Found shims in the tsuka when I went to reassemble it. Not that unexpected actually, though it would have been nice not to have them.
Tsuba
Simple and light. Iron matte black with leaf cutout, I was surprised and how thin it was.
Fuchi-Kashira
Simple iron matte black, unadorned. Kashira has golden Shitodome
Saya
Matte black with small subtle textured speckles of glossy black. Rattan topped with nice gloss seal. Silk sageo in barely lighter chocolate brown with a little shimmer in the light. The koiguchi, kurikata (golden shitodome), and kojiri are of buffalo born
Handling Characteristics
This sword feels great in the hand. With your hand up to the tsuba, it is almost weightless feeling. Swing is smooth with that nice bo-hi "swish" sound. The grip is nice and tight and the tsuka fits well in my hand. I am 5'9" with medium/average build and this sword handles nicely for me. Fast light and decent balance. Room for bigger hands than mine but still feels good in an average sized hand.
Test Cutting (if applicable)
Haven't done any cutting but definitely plan to and will update folks once I do.
Don't worry I will be doing some cutting soon and will post it once I do.
Cutting Update
I have sharpened up the blade. Not to extreme stupid sharp, though I will go there after I slow down on my cutting fun. I have been out cutting bottles, pool noodles, beach mats, and doing some landscaping (tree limbs etc) due to my brothers house has a quite over grown yard. It is a lot of fun to go whirling and coping through the yard with my sword. ;D
So how has the blade done you may wonder?
Bottles: of various size and hardness, are sliced through with ease
Pool noodles: sliced like butter, I thought people said these can be challenging. (tries with another blade, oh they can be challenging) I was even setting the cut pieces back on top of the cut then recutting the unconnected noodle with ease!
Beach mat rolls: Nice easy slices, lots of fun I need to get more!
Landscaping: Thumb sized and smaller branches easily cut clean many even one handed. Larger branches, up to 3 inches cut clean with good solid two handed cutting swing.
Conclusions
Over all pretty pleased. This sword is sexy and unique. Generally I would say a great job on a production piece. I am quite happy with my new sword, and glad I took a little risk for it. I would definitely do business with ST-Sword again, but know that the translation to English in messages and even on the website is not very good. You need to read between the lines, and not get hung up on specific words or grammar.
Pros
- unique blade design (even for the style)
- not the same sword and fittings you see everywhere
- nice subtle fittings, not overly flashy but with a good theme over all
- tight ito wrap
- good weight and feel
- unadvertised sword bag included free
- fast shipping from China
Cons
- needs to be sharpened (this is my only true issue with the sword)
- shimmed tsuka (though I don't hold it against any production piece)
- menuki need some adjustment with one end edge on each raised and the main design covered, not difficult to do, but entails needing to rewrap the tuska.
- unadorned F/K (I personally count this as a Pro, but some would not)
- no box, maintenance kit, or certificate (some people like those things)
The Bottom Line
I would grudgingly recommend this to others. I say grudgingly because one of the great things is others don't have it. ;D That said I think it is a great piece for the price. No question if someone is interested in this style I would recommend this sword to them. It is not from the standard big companies, but that itself sets it apart from them and you get a sword that reflects that. (sadly not offered by ST-swords anymore)
and on the negative side;
Definitely not the sword for everyone. It is subtle and muted. It does not have the typical look, feel or use of standard katana. Due to the second edge there is no noto for this sword. If you are not good with understanding broken misused English this is not the right seller for you.
Oh and BTW Price was $302 after shipping and insurance. So I would say it is in the $300 range the site was designed for. Sadly this blade is no longer offered by ST-Sword. I am certainly glad I got it when I did.
I am currently working on some customization for this sword, carving a new tsuka, making a solid silver tsuba, silver bullion menuki, and more in the planning buying stage. I will post up the customization when it is further along.
Lots of love laughter and light everyone!