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Post by grahamts on Dec 11, 2007 0:19:25 GMT
Can anybody help with some info on bringing out the grain and harmon on a DH folded steel tanto following a hybrid polish? I bought a Kris cultery reject tanto kriscutlery.com/documents/japanese.html, as a project blade. Crappy Tsuka, not too good saya but seems a nice blade. Prior to the polish you could just about see the folds but they were certainly not obvious and the hamon was virtually invisible. I've polished up to 2000 grit wet and dry and the folds are just about visible if you catch the light just right, but they are less visible than with the really poor original polish. The hamon is still hiding although I should be able to bring it out with an acid etch. I would like the folds to be a bit more prominent, any ideas? The steel seems extremely hard and I seem to remember reading that certain steels when folded do not show the folds very well Could this be the problem and if so what can I do about it
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slav
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Post by slav on Dec 11, 2007 3:53:03 GMT
Absolutely I will help you! What stage are you at with this tanto. (i.e. what have you done to it so far?)
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Post by grahamts on Dec 11, 2007 9:08:33 GMT
Hi Slav, I've carried out a hybrid polish from 400 grit up to 2000 grit, wet and dry, virtually got a mirror polish but little activity showing At the moment I am carrying on polishing with worn 2000 grit and soapy water just to get the blade very even. It is now scarily sharp and very shiny ;D When I get bored I polish the blade with solvol autosol ( a metal polish) then go back to the wet an dry, just for some variety!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2007 9:44:26 GMT
Was it this one you bought Graham ? If so mate, could you spare a few pictures if possible ? I was having thoughts on one myself, just for the blade.
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slav
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Post by slav on Dec 11, 2007 16:28:19 GMT
Okay. Well then it is time to bring out that hada! You wil need something acidic Lemon Juice, or some vinegar (or FeCl if you have it). EDIT: Kris blades are known for their stubborn, subtle hada [folds] and hamon. For best results, I would advise using FeCl. (Ferric Chloride. Can be found at Radio Shack? under the name "PCB Etchant", or "Archer Etchant".) If you don't have Radio Shack, then try computer stores...or just try using the vinegar first. Cut the mild acid of your choice with about 2-3 parts water. Then add a squirt of detergent (to thicken it just a little.) This will be your etching agent. You won't need more than a cupfull. Wipe the blade with alcohol to remove any oils or fingerprints. Heat the blade up by putting it in boiling water for a sec, or just running it under hot water for a long time. You'll want to do your work with a hot blade. At the same time, have your etch mixture in the microwave, heating it up until it is steaming hot. Now, with everything hot, use cotton swabs or a sponge to apply the etching agent to the blade. Wipe it evenly onto the blade in single strokes. Dip, wipe. Dip, wipe. other side. Dip, Wipe. Dip, Wipe. etc... You should immediately begin to see the hamon. The rest of the blade may turn dull and grey or black. This is normal. Once you can see a strong hamon, stop the etch by spraying the blade with Windex. Then wash it off. Polish off the etching corrosion with some metal polish (Flitz, Metalglo), this takes time. Eventually, it will be back to it's mirror-finish...this time with some hada and a hamon to show for itself! Hope this helps.
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Post by grahamts on Dec 11, 2007 19:05:34 GMT
Hi Chop, that's the one! The blade is pretty good, although there are some very small "wares" (carbon pockets) on one side but no fatal flaws that I can see. I'll post some pics soon. The Tsuka is really C**p and the saya doesn't have too good a finish but is repairable. Hi Slav, that is the route I was considering but I wasn't sure if it was the right thing to do to bring out the Hada, so you have helped me finalise my thoughts-cheers. I'll probably go with ferric chloride as I have some already, although I was also thinking of using white vinegar as it's supposed to be less aggressive. I'll probably try it over the week end so I'll let you know how it turns out
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slav
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Post by slav on Dec 12, 2007 0:02:59 GMT
On a Kris I would use FeCl. Kris' hamon are supposed to be very subtle in the first place, so you'll need all the aggression that you can get in an etch, IMO.
Good Luck, keep us posted.
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Post by grahamts on Dec 14, 2007 21:07:01 GMT
OK folks, progress photos. Tanto in Saya: Finish on Tanto on delivery: After 2000 grit hybrid polish: After Acid Etch: Pictures of final polish after the weekend ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2007 22:44:04 GMT
WOW ,What a difference,Is this the first time you've done a hybrid polish.Why to go you have really improved the appearance of that blade.To bad you live on the other side of the pond.I'd be sending you a blade or two. ;D
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 15, 2007 0:12:32 GMT
Agreed, that's some significant improvement. Fantastic job; can't wait to see it finished up.
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Post by grahamts on Dec 15, 2007 11:21:44 GMT
I think the difference in light made one hell of a difference in the photo. (Dull evening light before and bright sunshine after) ;D Although there was a vast improvement in the blade finish, it wasn't quite as dramatic as it appears I've done another polish, unfortunately a lot of the activity disappears again I plan to give it another etch and polish but leave the blade less shiny to show more activity, I hope it will work I tried a lemon juice etch just on the hamon but I think the steel is so hard that it had very little effect Back to the ferric chloride! Hopefully I should finish this weekend.
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slav
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Post by slav on Dec 15, 2007 18:01:53 GMT
Lookin good. The final polish should turn out well.
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Post by Dan Davis on Dec 17, 2007 0:01:18 GMT
Contrary to popular belief, most of the activity seen in nihonto (or good quality nipponto, for that matter) is very sublt and muted. It does NOT jump out at you like a western damascus-styled piece. The fact that the details become more subtle as you touch up the polish is not surprising.
To minimise the burnishing effects of your papers in the hybrid polish you can take a small amount of lemon dish soap and a fine scrubbing powder such as Bon Ami or Bartender's Friend and make a thick slurry; then rub it in with your fingers to remove oxides while retaining a lot of the surface texture (that's what the detail is, open surface grain in the metal giving a rough texture to the blade). DO NOT use Ajax or other cleansers that contain bleach or "power boosters". Rinse the slurry off in very hot water when you're done.
Also, you will find that a lot of the details will initailly disappear when you polish but will emerge again later as the polish "ages in". Be patient, it can take a while; up to several weeks in some cases.
P.S. - Nice work.
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Post by grahamts on Dec 17, 2007 16:13:58 GMT
Hi Dan, thanks for the info, unfortunately those trade names mean absolutely nothing to me on this side of the pond How about something like "T cut" polishing compund used for very mild abrasion on car paint?
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Post by Dan Davis on Dec 18, 2007 5:01:38 GMT
Not recommended. The idea is a light-duty scouring powder used to clean pots and pans, but without any added gunk like bleach.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2007 5:33:22 GMT
I think he is talking about gumption if you have that over there?
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Post by grahamts on Dec 22, 2007 8:22:11 GMT
I managed to find Gumption scourer, unfortunately it is manufactured over here with bleach, so not a lot of good! What about Diamond lapping compounds, I can get that relatively cheaply ( £6-00 a syringe ) but it is sold by micron size of the grit which is totaly confusing
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Post by Dan Davis on Dec 22, 2007 13:41:52 GMT
Diamond is far too abrasive. The UK brand of choice in the 70's was VIM, but I don't know if you can still get it.
Six-ought pumice powder used to be sold as denture cleaner and will work ok and you can make your own by mixing 1 part dry laundry detergent (no bleach!) with 3 parts baking soda (sodium bicarbonate).
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