Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2010 20:56:51 GMT
I've always said the swords that handle most similar to jian (besides Vietnamese and Korean versions) are actually Viking swords. I usually bring that up when in a debate about blade length and someone decides to compare rapiers to jian. seriously?
I find the round grip is indeed inferior to the oval grip though. The cross wrapping helps and you may not notice the difference when dry handling or cutting soft targets, but I test my swords on the chopping block (literally) and the round handle tends to twist in the hand when striking hard objects. You then have to realign the handle. That's something I wouldn't want to do during a fight.
I hear a lot about the slim profiles of the Han and Tang swords. The only difference is really the guard. As a martial artist, I prefer the protection (and other benefits) offered by the later, wider guards. I certainly appreciate the historical significange of the swords though and their aesthetic appeal.
If anyone wants a copy of Gundoggy's jian please get in touch with me. I was quite confident that not many people would want it so was planning to make only 2. One for Gundoggy and one for myself. But thinking about it, it may not be a bad idea to introduce a jian that goes against the stereotype.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2010 6:10:29 GMT
Tall, red-haired whites settled in a basin in the mountains to the North West of China, just South of the road 4,000 years ago and lived there for 500. No one seems to know what became of them as of yet.  Do you have any more information on this...? See the book Mummies of Urumchi by Elizabeth Barber. Well, we do have an idea what happened to them. They are usually considered the ancestors of the Tokarians, who moved west to Sogdiana and were known as the Kushans. Eventually, they played a big part in introducing Buddhism to China. Their language was similar in structure to Celtic, as were their tweed weaves. The Tokarians were just one group of Caucasian people who lived in what is now China and Mongolia. Other groups included the western Scythians-- the Saka-- ancestors of the Massagetae and Alans. Most of these people (30-40%) were part Asiatic, having married into the Chinese and Xiong-nu (Huns). Some had red hair and blue eyes, others did not.  PS: It might be wise to use a word other than "whites," unless you have friends at Storm Front.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2010 21:10:44 GMT
I've always said the swords that handle most similar to jian (besides Vietnamese and Korean versions) are actually Viking swords. I usually bring that up when in a debate about blade length and someone decides to compare rapiers to jian. seriously? I find the round grip is indeed inferior to the oval grip though. The cross wrapping helps and you may not notice the difference when dry handling or cutting soft targets, but I test my swords on the chopping block (literally) and the round handle tends to twist in the hand when striking hard objects. You then have to realign the handle. That's something I wouldn't want to do during a fight. I hear a lot about the slim profiles of the Han and Tang swords. The only difference is really the guard. As a martial artist, I prefer the protection (and other benefits) offered by the later, wider guards. I certainly appreciate the historical significange of the swords though and their aesthetic appeal. Himm, jian similar to viking swords. I could see that, though I've never handled a viking sword before. As far as comparing jian to European swords, I've always considered them to be more like something in between a long sword and a side sword... maybe closer to the side sword. Rapier though... no. The construction and handling of those weapons just aren't the same. The round grip definitely isn't as good as the oval grip, though it does surprise me how many people see to have a problem with it. The han jian I own I've tested against 2x4 with horizontal and diagonal cuts using considerable force, and I've not had to re-adjust my grip. I don't know... maybe I'm just too used to this kind of grip, or maybe it's because I used to practice with a broomstick, but I really don't have much trouble with blade alignment. Still, an oval grip IS easier to handle (obviously), and my next sword will definitely have one. Wider hand guards are better for hand protection true, and I do think there are some rather elegant swords with the later wider hand guards. But I don't think they offer as much hand protection as one would think, at least not as much as say a cup style hand guard of a Spanish rapier, or the circular one of a dao. The jian's hand guard has a flat profile, so even if it's wide it's still possible to snipe the hand with a well aimed cut or thrust. I think this is the reason why jian style swordsmanship has techniques specifically designed to protect the hand from such attacks, as well as relying on proper footwork and counters to openings for defense, or if pressed, parries where the opponent's slides away from you, rather than straight (hard) blocking. I know straight blocking is used from time to time, but from what I've seen it's always considered a last resort. Of course, all that could be a modern interpretation. I think if there are several antiques showing lots of nicks on the hand guard, that would hint at a cultural reliance on using it for defensive purposes. Of course, then we'd have to find or develop those techniques, since I don't really know of ANYONE who teaches them.  This is fun... I like speculating on these kinds of things. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2010 16:15:23 GMT
That is one stout blade you've got there, practical indeed....reminds me of these Jian's with similar stout blade profiles  Vue If I am not mistaken, I think the wider and stouter blade of the Jians in the photo might be Korean version of Chinese Jian, both have Song style open pommel The Koreans named it as Saingeom, you can check this link : www.swordsofkorea.com/swords100.htmThey have several variations to it with sometime have constellation stars engraved to the blade. I read somewhere in the internet , the Korean Jian handled slight different from Chinese , as they can handle it with double handed way. Koreans sometime have their own unique way of their own of adapting Chinese weapons. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2010 18:31:17 GMT
Oh thanks Johan, I've saved that pic from a chinese website and therefore I did not know that it was Korean.
Indeed the Koreans have a unique way of adapting various weapons from the Chinese and the Japanese.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2010 14:20:55 GMT
No problem Vue, just sharing what I knew, even I myself once in a while got lost in differentiating them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2010 0:31:05 GMT
Hey guys! This looks to me, to be a fairly modern sword from the 1900's. I see these a LOT of this style of sword at the trade shows and auctions I visit. Here are the common features I see on all of these swords. The only thing that is different with this sword is that it is missing a tortoise-shell scabbard. Short very round grip with vertical stripes (this one is unsually wrapped) Poorly made blade with a triangular gladius style tip Large rounded metal fittings Short in length |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2010 3:38:28 GMT
This antique sword has a 30.5" long blade made of sanmai laminate construction with folded 'cheeks'. It is well heat treated with very hard edges. Total length of the sword is around 39" long.
The grip is a very flattened oval which gives a one a very distinct sense of blade alignment, the 'edges' of the oval are almost 'pointy'.
The scabbard while beat up is covered in green rayskin.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2010 10:30:07 GMT
OK, there is only so much I have to go on from this picture and poor details. I can imagine that this style was perhaps copied onto the modern-ish tourist jians that I see. Although old they are still touristy, much like the bone and ivory swords you get from Japan in the early 1900's.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2010 21:07:47 GMT
well, I for one would really like see how this one would turn out! I definitely want to see more functional jians in the market! I think it doesn't really matter if it looks like something from the 1900's as long as it's functional...I mean the jian has really gone a long way since the Han dynasty and I would like to see new designs evolve in this century- AND NOT TOURIST CRAP! ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2010 3:37:43 GMT
Garrett can chime in as well regarding my points here.
All modern jian should follow the general range of measurements and profiles of the antiques. The problem of 'designing a new jian' is that we no longer have the cycle of forge sword, customer takes it to fight and defeat opponent, give feedback to sword smith. The range of antique jian have a range of parameters that virtually all of them fall under. This is the result of centuries of experimentation and testing in battle.
The wide thin blades such as on this jian developed near the end of the Ching Dynasty. At that time such blades faced unarmored foes and the profile may have been optimized for cutting an unarmored but clothed foe.
|
|
