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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 15:39:06 GMT
I sincerely apologize if there is already a thread on this but I was just wondering, I've been into knives for a while and recently got my first sword and was wondering if using a Lansky Sharpening System would be okay, it's a pretty cheap sword just something I run around the woods with and cut light vegetation. Lastly what sharpening angle is ideal for Katana?
Thanks in Advance.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 15:54:54 GMT
NOOO, no accusharp-like thing, that'll ruin your sword. Well, you CAN sharpen a blade with an accusharp but you'll get a very rough edge and most importantly a secondary edge (not one single smoth surface from middle to edge). On a very cheap sword you might use an accusharp if you have no skill with disk or belt sanders and don't posess a file and sandpaper but really, it's not worth the trouble. There are many sharpening tutorials here on SBG, mainly Tom K's belt sander stuff but if you dig deep enough also some stuff about files, etc.
Edit: Uh, forgot the second question. Answer is: that depends on the intention of the sword. The smaller the angle, the better the sword cuts (there are many other things to consider, but that's a basic rule). A smaller angle also means a weaker edge. So if you want to cut only tatami and soft targets, go with a very small angle (and a thin and wide blade). If you want to go at tatami with wooden cores, heavy water bottles, etc, you'll need a stronger edge. You also need to consider the niku on the blade. If you have a single bevel, that doesn't mean that the bevel goes straight from middle to edge. Normally it forms an appleseed shape, this makes the edge stronger as there is more material backing it up. Less nike again equals easier cutting but less durability. The quality of the heat treat, especially the hardness of the edge also plays a big role in the "how thing can go" question. You see, it's always a compromise. For cutting branches, etc, like you seem to do, you need a rather strong appleseed edge. When making a sword, I normally leave a 1-1.5mm blunt edge, bring the edges together with a wide secondary bevel and blend the bevel in with sandpaper. That results in a strong edge that seems to cut everything from bottles to branches well enough.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 16:01:40 GMT
No, Lansky's system isn't a pull through sharpener it's essentially a clamp with pre-determined angles and you use guide rods with stones so you have a even angle on each side. I don't even use pull through sharpeners on cheap knives. I'm new to the forum but I'll try to throw some pics of it up. Here's the sharpener with my USMC KA-BAR in it, essentially from here you lightly push up... www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31561006&l=60bb2dfae0&id=1441312104
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 16:05:48 GMT
Yes, please post some pics, I don't think I've ever seen that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 16:06:01 GMT
lansky will put an secondary bevel on the edge and it is unacceptable (aesthetically, for me..) with Japanese style blades.....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 16:35:29 GMT
No, Lansky's system isn't a pull through sharpener it's essentially a clamp with pre-determined angles and you use guide rods with stones so you have a even angle on each side. I don't even use pull through sharpeners on cheap knives. I'm new to the forum but I'll try to throw some pics of it up. Here's the sharpener with my USMC KA-BAR in it, essentially from here you lightly push up... www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31561006&l=60bb2dfae0&id=1441312104Maybe better that an accusharp but you still get a secondary bevel. Also: you push UP? You mean, to the back of the blade? Well, don't know how well that works but normally you go in direction of the edge. Going the other way actually bluntens the edge I think
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 17:18:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 18:13:12 GMT
Yeah I've watched those videos previously and was really just curious as to whether or not it WOULDE be acceptable to use Lanskys' system on a sword, in all reality it would be very time consuming and tedious to use the Lansky system, though it seems like most sharpening techniques are, thanks for all the help though guys.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2010 21:31:23 GMT
Are we 100% sure about Tom's method on a belt sander not ruining the temper? What about cooling the blade?
I ask because I essentially am about to begin sharpening a sword using his method. Hope I don't screw things up too badly. I plan on sharpening a William Marshal Damascus and a Cold Steel 1796 Pattern Sabre.
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Post by YlliwCir on Aug 26, 2010 21:37:09 GMT
Petev, I use Tom's method and have had no issue with too much heat. Just go slow. A little touch up on an already sharp-like blade doesn't generate that much heat. On something like the Marshall (assuming it's like most hanwei euro edges) I'd take it in stages. Work on it for a bit, feel the steel for heat, and take breaks to let it cool some. Just take your time and you shouldn't have a problem. Take note of Tom's warning to stay away from the tip. It'll round that off right quick.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2010 21:51:08 GMT
Okay.
I have five 1200 grit belts, and five 500 grit belts, plus the leather strap and honing compound.
Are those grits alright to use on a Hanwei Euro edge? They're pretty fine and the Marshall's edge sucks. 2mm probably?
Is it hard to screw up? LOL...hope so.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2010 21:54:55 GMT
Petev:
I am 100% sure about Tom's system. I've been using it for 8 months now on every blade I own. The key is movement, and moving faster then a snails pace (literally)
If you use tom's method, you should never go slower then 6" per second. That is where you start getting heat issues. Friction works the same no matter where it's applied. You can rub your hands together once or twice and not feel to much heat, but if you sit there and rub them together for a minute straight, then you'll probably find some blisters soon.
The only time that any of my blades have gotten warm to the touch (and I'm talking maybe 100 degrees warm) is when I was trying to get the factory secondary edge off my H/T GSOW. It wasn't from moving it slowly, but I was doing a LOT of passes across the sander, which over time will keep warming the metal up.
The biggest place to watch out for is the tip. The reason is that the tip does not have a lot of metal to act as a heat sync, so you are applying the same amount of friction energy into a smaller amount of metal, and so it will warm up quick.
Ruthless: I'll let you in on a little secret about sword ownership. As long as you are fine with making any modifications to your sword, then it's "OK." Your sword won't be passed around the SBG community for use, you are the one that owns it.
HOWEVER I urge you to research WHY using the product you are talking about is looked down upon. Anything that creates a secondary edge on a blade will effect the way it cuts. When you put a secondary edge on a blade you are essentially increasing the angle at which the material must seperate over a shorter distance.
Think of your swords edge like a ramp. The steeper the ramp, the harder it is to climb right? This is why we urge sword owners to stay away from secondary edges. You'll put one on your blade, go out cutting with it and think "Pfft, this isn't fun. It doesn't cut at all like I see other people cutting."
If you haven't already put a secondary edge on your blade, but your blade is still sharp, the best way to sharpen it is with some sandpaper and just follow the surface of the metal out to the edge of the blade. Or, you could try to strop it if it's only paper cutting sharp but you want it hair splitting sharp.
Then again, you said you were wanting to go lumberjacking with this, so you probably don't want it that sharp.
Again, this is your blade. If you want to use it as an overprice machete, go for it. But there are members of the community that will feel very strongly about the subject.
So I'll give the general closing statement that has been used so many times: If you want something to run around the woods with and cut vegetation. Get a machete. If you want a sword, then get a sword.
As far as machete's go, Cold Steel recently came out with a "katana machete" for about 40 bucks (25-30 bucks if you do some searching) It's sword shaped, but it's a machete. I've heard good things about it and I can vouche for the quality of Cold Steel, as I own two of their other models.
If there is any other questions, don't be afraid to ask.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2010 0:15:29 GMT
I used Tom's method today on a Tinker Longsword blade I ordered, thinking I would just switch out the fittings with my blunt when necessary. Well, that didn't work as expected, but more about that in a second.
I can see what you mean about using the belt sander. The blade is in absolute ZERO danger of heating to the degree necessary to screw up your temper. I went through four belts and the strop with honing compound and never once was it hot to the touch. Warm at times yes, but never hot. When it started getting a bit warm I just went and did something else for 5-10 minutes. I didn't get it shaving sharp, but certainly paper cutting sharp. I had it in a vice a few hours ago while I was chiseling a new grip and I had used a heavy duty leather glove to brace it between the vice, and it cut cleanly through the leather glove...lol. Learned from that one...
With regard to switching out the grips; nope. Not possible. The tang on the sharp blade was significantly bigger than the blunt tang. I tried filing it down for an hour or so and still couldn't get the grip to fit, or even slide up to the guard, so I opted to just build my own. It's in the vice right now curing and it finally fits well, but I was wondering if there is an easier, more efficient method of building a grip than using chiseling the wood? What I did was trace the tang on a piece of spruce twice, then chiseled out the area until the two pieces fit well, then glued and tossed them in a vice to cure for 24 hours or so. Took me about two hours.
Easier way?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2010 6:45:29 GMT
Ruthlessz: So what have you decided to do with your sword as far as sharpening it goes? Petev: Since you have a belt grinder, you might find it easier to build a grip like Gaffer explains here: www.yeoldegaffers.com/project.asp and then use a combination of chisel and belt grinder to shape the grip. When you click on the link, look down the page to Grips then select Part I to see all the different ways to build it. I use the sandwich method where each of the 4 sides is a different peice of wood. I can make a ROUGH grip in about 20 mins, and I'm only on my 5th grip. So as I continue to practice, I should be able to make a finished one in 20.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2010 8:17:27 GMT
Well semprini, that's easier....lol. Never even considered bracing it like that. Although, in the long run the fewer pieces of wood used the better, I would assume. Fewer chances for failure with the bonds. Nevertheless, I'll be using that method next time Thanks again Greg.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2010 18:12:04 GMT
Glad to be of service. And as far as toughness goes, I don't think that it would be noticeable. I've had to destroy 2 of the handles I've made. (Peened pommel and the grip was either to big or to small) and when it apart, the seems were the epoxy was held and the wood around it split. So as long as you use epoxy to secure your handles, I feel that it would be a stronger bond then solid wood.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2010 14:48:11 GMT
In the way of acusharps, since you're going to be using your sword as a machete, the dings you are going to put into it will probably be worse than what an acusharp can do to it. I'm not really sure how your sharpening contraption works, but for machete-like use, I don't see how it could hurt. Although I would recomend using a machete for machete-like use.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2010 13:33:07 GMT
Maybe better that an accusharp but you still get a secondary bevel. Also: you push UP? You mean, to the back of the blade? Well, don't know how well that works but normally you go in direction of the edge. Going the other way actually bluntens the edge I think With knives, you go from edge to spine. When you file metal, it curls away. Doing it this way gets the curls around the spine instead of across the edge. Now, going back over it with extremely fine sandpaper to polish the edge and removing the fouling, cleaning the "wire edge" I believe I have seen it called, apparently fixes this, but you don't usually do that with knives. Just a few passes with a stone.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2010 8:08:47 GMT
In the way of acusharps, since you're going to be using your sword as a machete, the dings you are going to put into it will probably be worse than what an acusharp can do to it. I'm not really sure how your sharpening contraption works, but for machete-like use, I don't see how it could hurt. Although I would recomend using a machete for machete-like use. Just a quick bit of information...a machete with a convex edge will ALWAYS cut better, with an edge that will last longer (meaning stay sharper)...than a machete with a secondary bevel. This means a shaving sharp edge btw...yes, on a machete. On the whole belt sander/grinder thing and heat...I use a 1"x30" to sharpen everything from 3" knife blades to a 28" katana. The best thing to do is have a bucket of water and a soft cloth handy. If doing a knife...dip it every other pass. If doing a sword, you can get a good number of passes in (more metal is a bigger heat sink)...but dipping it is still a good idea. Even if you're not feeling heat in the blade itself, it's the thin EDGE, with very little material...that is heating up the fastest. The water won't hurt anything and makes the whole process idiot proof (I know...cause I can do it). By the way...the trick to sharpening tips is NOT to angle the blade away from the grinder as so many people do...this just DECREASES the edge angle, blunting and rounding your edge. What you want to do...is ALWAYS keep your edge perpendicular to the belt. Meaning if you have an americanized tanto with a chisel point that is a 45* angle...you would raise the handle of the blade 45*...thus keeping the angle of the tip perpendicular to the belt. On more standard blades with curved tips, you get to raise the handle gradually to keep the part of the tip being sharpened...yep, perpendicular to the belt =D. Hope that helps. Cris
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