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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 16:00:45 GMT
Im getting my first katana, (Hanwei practical plus xl light) but i have an extremely tight sword budget, and the sword itself is over my budget to start with. How long can i get away with using WD-40 before i have to get a real katana maintenance kit? I live in north Texas and it is as humid as it can get
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 17:00:51 GMT
Honestly, you can pick up a bottle of mineral oil, a bottle of 91% isopropryl (rubbing) alcohol and paper towels from your local CVS for 5 or 6 bucks. Lasts much longer than a maintenance kit; does the same job, but better. I've never used WD-40 on my swords but there's folks around here who swear by it. I've used the method listed above for many years, however. Mineral oil is the base of traditional sword oil but without the fragrance, and alcohol is safer and works better than a powder ball for removing debris and keeping a blade stain free. My blades look great and are tarnish and rust free...and probably clean enough to perform surgery with. Hope this helps!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 17:30:38 GMT
That sounds like a good idea, Do I still need something to polish the sword?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 17:49:30 GMT
I picked up some mineral oil the other day at the pharmacy. I am assuming that it was the "light" variety but wasn't sure. It was thicker than what I expected. I had some baby oil, which is mineral oil, I think, in the cabinet so I compared them and they seem to be the same consistency. If you want to "baby" your sword, you might try that especially if you like that smell more than clove or nothing at all. Just an idea.
I know that others have recommended the light mineral oil. Has anyone accidently purchased the heavy stuff? My bottle doesn't say whether it is heavy or light but it was in the laxative department. Thanks.
Todd
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 18:05:46 GMT
Solo: You don't really need to polish your sword unless there's scratches, chips or tarnishing. However, a lot of PPK's look better with a contemporary polish put on them instead of that murky 'tameshigiri polish'. But i'll leave it to someone else to explain the process for that. If you aren't careful, you can seriously screw up a blade by trying to polish it. Not for the faint of heart. I don't polish my own blades. Pale: The stuff at the pharmacy is actually the heavy stuff, and it is a natural laxative. You get the light stuff by going to the hardware store and asking for mineral oil for chainsaws, or by going someplace that sells mineral oil for sewing machines. These are much, much lighter in consistency, but they are also more expensive. Personally, I wouldn't use the baby oil on a sword because I don't know what chemicals are in the fragrance, don't know if they may accelerate tarnishing or rusting on the metal and really, I kinda hate the smell.
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Post by Dan Davis on Aug 5, 2010 18:10:20 GMT
Heavy mineral oil (high viscosity) tends to aggregate and pool, saturating portions of your scabbard or saya while leaving areas of the blade dry and unprotected. Use light or ultralight mineral oil, not "intestinal lubricant" from the drug store. Sewing machine oil is ultralight mineral oil and you can buy a gallon of the stuff for around $15.00
Alcohol is NOT a better substance than uchiko for cleaning your traditionally polished or hybrid polished katana. Sorry Midori, but it is true.
The polishing process opens the grain of the steel, either by slurry cutting action in the case of a traditional polish or by acid corrosion in the case of a hybrid polish and etch. Either way, there are open grain structures in the steel and when you use the sword things will get trapped in the open grain. Uchiko powder removes these impurities by forming a dry slurry which is pressed down into the grain and then drawn out again, bringing the crud with it. Alcohol simply flows over the surface, is wiped along and then evaporates. Alcohol works fine for removing surface crud but does poorly when removing crap from the steel grain.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 18:31:20 GMT
It is not a substitute for true uchiko, but what comes in 9/10ths of all cleaning kits (and ALL of the cheap ones) is not uchiko, but talc, which will scratch the blade over time. Real uchiko is expensive and most laypeople are unwilling to pay for the real thing.
As far as oil goes. I use chainsaw mineral oil. haven't found a gallon of sewing machine oil.
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Post by Dan Davis on Aug 5, 2010 19:00:51 GMT
I agree about the cheapo kits (although I was given a cheap one once and it had a premium uchiko ball in it). I bought a couple from Ted Tenold a long time back and I am still using one of them. For sewing machine oil look here: www.westchestersewing.com/oil/
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Aug 5, 2010 19:48:12 GMT
Im getting my first katana, (Hanwei practical plus xl light) but i have an extremely tight sword budget, and the sword itself is over my budget to start with. How long can i get away with using WD-40 before i have to get a real katana maintenance kit? I live in north Texas and it is as humid as it can get Something else that hasn't been mentioned; gun oil. Since I have several handguns and rifles I keep it in large quantities. It works just as well for me as choji oil. If you already have a gun cleaning kit you're good to go.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 21:06:46 GMT
Where can I get real uchiko then, outside of a kit? Also, are plain paper towels fine to use to polish?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2010 0:26:04 GMT
Dan: The thing is, You don't really need uchiko for a monosteel blade, since it isn't porous like the folded steel can be. A folded one I can see doling out the money for, but not a mono, unless it's a really good mono. It's a shock you found good uchiko in a cheap kit; a true diamond in the rough!
Solo: Uchiko is expensive stuff, usually. The kits that I've seen that contain real uchiko retail for between $60 and $80.
I think you're confusing cleaning and polishing. You need to clean a blade often and can use soft paper towels, microfiber, rice paper, cotton or linen to do so, but a polish is a once in a lifetime/when needed thing. A good polish will last for years. You need to re-oil and clean your blade after every use and handling or every six to eight weeks if you're not doing anything with it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2010 1:36:23 GMT
Sooo... what is the uchiko for? and which is better, the alcohol, or cheap uchiko?
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Post by Dan Davis on Aug 6, 2010 1:41:11 GMT
Folded or not has nothing to do with open grain (which is an altogether different thing from porosity).
If your monosteel blade has a visible hamon or even if it has an acid etched fake hamon then it HAS an open grain and that grain needs to be cleared out periodically.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2010 5:13:25 GMT
Sorry to bring this whole thing back down to earth, but to answer the question "How long can you get away with WD-40" I would have to say for as long as you have WD-40 on hand.
From my understanding, the purists don't like WD-40 because it has some % of water in it... which is odd because the "WD" stands for "Water Displacer." Anyway, you wouldn't want to rub your sword down once and then put it up for 6 months or so with WD-40, but if you are going to be cutting with it weekly, you should be fine.
Also, since this is your first sword... well, you said first katana, so I assumed that it is also your first sword and you don't have a closet full of euro's somewhere... but since this is your first sword, then you will probably do what the majority of us did with our first swords. You'll take it out daily, look at it, study it, swing it around, even cut with it, and then afterwards you'll clean it with the best you have on hand.
If that happens to be WD-40 for now, then you'll be fine. Once you get some more cash, go ahead and look into higher end oils and cleaning what nots.
I've been a sword owner for 6 months and the only thing I've used is "Rem Oil" and a rag. The only rust that has shown up on my blades came at the later end of a 6 hour cutting marathon. I absent mindedly forgot to clean the blade the whole time, so some tarnish spots started showing up. But, that should go to show you that over a period of 6 hours, even Rem Oil will stave off the rust from constant water exposure.
(Sorry for being lengthy... it's my nature)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2010 19:11:47 GMT
Mmmmm, I'm gonna have to look for that Ballistol, I'd love for my blades to smell like licorice... well, up until the point that I'd want to gnaw on em.
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Aug 11, 2010 3:12:21 GMT
Licorice, you know, now that you mention it, it does kinda smell like that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2010 0:30:27 GMT
How is 3-in-1 oil?
That's what I've been using. Relatively cheap.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2010 2:51:00 GMT
How is 3-in-1 oil? That's what I've been using. Relatively cheap. I've been using that too for couple of years. So far so good.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2010 20:05:00 GMT
I don't recommend WD-40 unless you want to be cleaning your sword every few days regardless of whether you use it or not. WD-40 tends to dry up and get gummy... not good on your swords.
What I do is I clean the swords upon first receiving it with windex then alcohol. Then I wipe it dry and give the blade a good covering of WD-40 to displace the water. Wipe that dry then I apply a thin layer of Militec-1 grease. Its a synthetic grease that I found when looking for a reliable lubricant/protectant for my firearms. I swear by it for my firearms and I swear by it for my swords too. Anyway wipe the blade down till you can no longer see or feel the grease on the blade. Rest assured your blade will still have grease on it. Afterwards I take a hair dryer to the blade - heating it up slowly to open up the grain and allow the steel to absorb the little bit of grease left on it. The grease has some conditioners that bond to the steel on a molecular level and provides really great DRY lubrication and rust preventative qualities. After the blade has cooled I apply another thin layer of the grease then wipe it down till it is not visible and can't be felt by touch.
I do this to every blade that passes through my hands with the exception of kitchen knives - the grease isn't very good on the digestive system (found that out the hard way). Afterwards if I don't use the swords at all I don't have to clean them till I do use them - if that means 6 mos, a year etc... I'm confident the sword won't rust. If I do use the sword I admit I'm spoiled - I've cut tatami, bamboo and even tall green grass as well as corn stalks etc. All the stuff said to stain your blade. Depending on how I feel I'll either wipe it down with Windex OR alcohol then WD-40 and re-apply some grease etc... or I just leave it till I get around to it. I've left a blade covered in grass juice for weeks to remember I hadn't yet cleaned it (usually the next time I pick up the sword to use is) and found that after wiping off the now dried and sticky substance the blade has not been rusted or even stained.
Sorry about the long post but I really love this product for my firearms and my swords. You should consider getting some. One initial treatment can last along time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2010 13:26:36 GMT
I use a silicone gun cloth. Had my sword about a year now and she is completely rust free. No worries about oil pooling or leaving spots dry and unprotected. Just wipe her down with the silicone cloth and put her away.
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