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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2010 6:33:54 GMT
I know little or nothing about armor and I was on Kult of Athena the other day and found this movie piece made by Windlass. It is a Brigandine copied from the movie Braveheart by Windlass Steelcrafts. So first off what is a Brigandine and secondly is this a historically accurate piece.
-John-
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2010 13:56:11 GMT
The brigandine is essentially a leather jacket with small, oblong pieces of metal sewn onto it that originated in Asia and came to Europe after a mongol invasion in 1240.
As for the Windlass piece itself, I can't attribute to its historical accuracy, but it's likely.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2010 14:14:31 GMT
The description of the regular Windlass brig says that it has steel plates riveted in, while the description of the Wallace brig doesn't say that. It just says thick padded suede.
I would make a call be fore purchasing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2010 19:48:09 GMT
Assuming you're reffering to this: www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=100402&name=Leather+Brigadine+ArmorIn my opinion it's a more modern reproduction, but the fact it's sleeveless is correct . The more a brigandine looks like a doublet the better(aka citizen or civilian clothing). With that said for the price it's a wonderful looking piece, and you should go for it! - Yakuza
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2010 22:30:19 GMT
are you talking about the regular brigadine or the William Wallace brigadine
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 14:20:43 GMT
Not much leather armor has survived. Leather would have been the most common armor throughout history and the details would have varied somewhat from one man to the next within the same region. The variance would have been much greater over a larger area.
The leather armor referenced has steel plates on the inside which is very common and basic design. It is good bet to say that it is accurate enough. It would have been nice if they posted a picture of it inside out so we can see the plates.
A lot of people probably went into battle without splinted leather too. Boiling leather makes it hard and provides a good defense against incidental blows.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 18:41:45 GMT
Boiled leather works reasonably well against cuts and slices and chops as well. But piercing attacks make it seem like it's not there at all. I have a recipe for hardened leather that changes that, but it's not period in any way, shape or form. It's from the 1800s.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2010 3:22:44 GMT
so are we talking leather armor suck as lamellar (spelling) or like just pieces of leather? That doesn't seem like it would be much protection at all.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2010 4:48:16 GMT
Leather actually makes quite decent armour. It just doesn't stop piercing attacks. Thrusts, arrows, spears... But against cuts, it's quite effective. Carry a shield for the rest. There's a few reasons it was the most common form of armour for thousands of years: It's effective It's relatively cheap It's light
The latter 2 are negotiable with any form of armour, but armours that didn't work didn't last. Of course, the fact that bronze and then iron and then steel work better are why they were preferred by those who had the option.
As far as the form leather armour could take, it took many forms over the millenia. Scale/Lamellar, pieces held together in various ways, full breastplates, brigandines... The key was in hardening it. You use scalding water (but not boiling) to do that and then SLOWLY dry it out. Wax works to harden leather and works wonderfully against bludgeoning attacks, but actually lubricates the armour so any blade that might want to cut it will have an easier time. Wax is popular today because, unlike water-hardening, it doesn't shrink the leather and screw up the tooling and because we aren't too worried most times about stopping blades with it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2010 14:10:49 GMT
so are we talking leather armor suck as lamellar (spelling) or like just pieces of leather? That doesn't seem like it would be much protection at all. It won't protect against a spear thrust. That is what the shield is for. It will protect against blow that skips of the shield of the guy next to you and lands on you. It may also protect you somewhat when you fall and are trampled. In short... it is much better then going bare-skinned. The leather armor is not your primary defense... your shield is.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2010 5:26:05 GMT
First off I apologize for any confusion in me last post. I meant such not suck lol. but I guess thats what happens when you decide to type late at night without much sleep.
So on a Medieval Battle field what would the vast majority of armor look like. Would it be leather or would most people not have any armor on at all.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2010 23:33:48 GMT
Most people will have either leather or leather and steel mix. Most people being the ones that are not either knights or supplied by rich lords. Brigandine being the most common single Type, regardless of material. Because it's really the easiest to make.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2010 1:20:51 GMT
Is a brigadine SCA legal
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2010 2:02:42 GMT
Yes. You just have to make sure that the legal minimum coverage areas have sufficiently stiff coverage. Easy to do with brigandine.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2010 21:00:29 GMT
Yes!!! That just made my day. Could you recommend one that might be best for SCA combat.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2010 0:59:22 GMT
Brigandines were popular, but they are nothing like what MRL sells. Here is a typical brigandine such as was found as Visby: Visby BrigandineThe historical record has very, very slim pickings on leather armor (as stated above) for us to study. In fact, leather seems to be used suprisingly little. There are alot of misconceptions that the Vikings, Huns, etc used leather - like in the movies. This was not the case. By far and wide the most used armor would have been maille, followed by the implemention of plate elements. Early on this was bronze, then iron, then steel. Depending on what period you want to represent, the armor varied greatly. If you were a Viking, you would want a maille hauberk. If you were an early crusader, you would want a hauberk with mittens, coif, and maille leggings (chausses) - along with a transitional helm. If you were an early 1400s mercenary, you might want a brigandine, transitional arms and legs (leather with steel bands), and a klappvisor or pigsnout helm. If you were a later period, you might want a whole plate harness with no leather at all. It all depends on the period. From what I know: SCA armor is much, much thicker than actual historical armor, and is not very accurate from what I have seen because it is geared to prevent injury in sport fighting. The suits I have seen are poorly articulated and the armor does not always offer a good fit - which is essential to distribute weight properly. This mainly always comes back to the fact it has to be much thicker than armors of antiquity. I have seen good sets of SCA plate armor on rare occasion, but these are custom jobs typically running several thousand dollars. By far and wide, most of the stuff I have seen looks like a hodge-podge of 6 different armor sets from 4 different historical periods. Good luck in your search...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2010 4:17:37 GMT
Was Braveheart's armour accurate? Here is a summation of the things that are historically correct in that particular film: England and Scotland exist.
Might I suggest the Osprey series for serious pictorial depictions of various armour types throughout history?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2010 2:06:50 GMT
Another thing that would be fairly common and should be SCA legal is Brigandine over a chain main hauberk.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 20:35:36 GMT
Was Braveheart's armour accurate? Here is a summation of the things that are historically correct in that particular film: England and Scotland exist. Might I suggest the Osprey series for serious pictorial depictions of various armour types throughout history? Osprey is amazing... I love all of their books and it definitely gives you more insight into the warrior and teaches you a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2010 22:14:35 GMT
would it be possible for someone with limited skill to make a brigadine
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