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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2007 22:42:19 GMT
do you think snake skin would give as much support to the tsuka? it'd be nice, because i can kill a snake on my own, and wouldnt need to buy rayskin, but i dont want to compromise the strength of the tsuka.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2007 10:23:43 GMT
I am not shure about using snake skin instead of ray skin, I have handeld both live snakes and live rays. The ray skin feels like sand paper and the snakes is soft and vey smooth, however I do not know what the snakes is like when dried. I am not 100% shure but from my understanding the same is used to assist with the grip, so I have my doubts that it would be a good subsitute for same. I have seen an antique tsuka with sankeskin Ito which looks impressive, hear's a link home.planet.nl/~sebregts/Pictures_37-40/pictures_37-40.htmlThis websit also has some other very intersing Tuskamaki styles.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2007 1:20:31 GMT
Killing a snake for a tsuka wrap? Man, that's serious do-it-yourself. I'm not sure how that would work, because to my understanding, same is very stiff and hard when dry, and the snakeskin I've handled isn't. Cheers if you do it, though. Let us know how it turns out.
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Post by Dan Davis on Sept 18, 2007 10:47:02 GMT
Rayskin is very thick and is applied to the tsuka as rawhide, so that it both shrinks and hardens when it dries. This applies both rigidity and compression to the tsuka core and greatly increases the tensile strength of the grip; this is true in both a full same wrap AND in partial or panel wraps.
There is absolutely no way that snakeskin can provide this. The only thing I have found that even comes close is beef rawhide, and I'm not talking about the stuff you give your puppy. I mean solid, cured rawhide from a good leather supply house.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2007 2:35:42 GMT
i saw a place to buy like rayskin and sharkskin cobra skin ect all kinds of dead animals dont remember what thread it was one probably discussion about sword building
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2007 5:40:52 GMT
Killing a snake for a tsuka wrap? Man, that's serious do-it-yourself. I'm not sure how that would work, because to my understanding, same is very stiff and hard when dry, and the snakeskin I've handled isn't. Cheers if you do it, though. Let us know how it turns out. well, i've wanted to try rattlesnake meat for a while now, and have a hunter friend who knows a place where there are some rattlesnakes (he hunts deer and elk and coyote, knows a lot about the surrounding area) i was just thinking maybe i could use the skin as well. from what i've read about tanning snakeskin, if you use saltwater instead of tanner, it makes the skin more stiff (not really something most people are after, but it's easier, cheaper, and it would would actually be better in this case). that would probably get me closer to the right results. assuming that works (it might not, but i'm hopeful), it really comes down to whether the snakeskin would be too slick. i've never handled rayskin, so i wouldnt know, but how does rayskin feel? is it slick, is it like sandpaper? how much grip would you say the rayskin provides, and how much of it is the ito? if it doesnt end up working as a same, i can always use the snakeskin for ito, or just make a wallet out of it, or hang it on the wall. but if i can use it instead of same, i will. and i'll probably end up trying, regardless.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2007 6:08:41 GMT
Rayskin is very thick and is applied to the tsuka as rawhide, so that it both shrinks and hardens when it dries. This applies both rigidity and compression to the tsuka core and greatly increases the tensile strength of the grip; this is true in both a full same wrap AND in partial or panel wraps. There is absolutely no way that snakeskin can provide this. The only thing I have found that even comes close is beef rawhide, and I'm not talking about the stuff you give your puppy. I mean solid, cured rawhide from a good leather supply house. if you soak the snakeskin in salt water, right after you remove it from the snake, and then let it dry, it gets really hard, or so i hear. i'm thinking that i can compensate for the thinness of the skin by wrapping several layers. i'll probably try once with rebar stuck into piece of wood, see if the snakeskin can hold up to stress, before i use it for same.
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Post by tajima on Sept 19, 2007 8:48:12 GMT
Snake skins - after dried out, merely crumble and flake. Even after salt-water. Will not work without it becoming patchy and ripping and it will not have fine grip.
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Post by chakobsa on Sept 19, 2007 20:47:27 GMT
Fojar, in answer to your question regarding how rayskin feels, I've skinned a couple and when wet it behaves like good wet & dry paper and will abrade your skin exactly like wet and dry does if your not careful. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2007 4:02:18 GMT
Snake skins - after dried out, merely crumble and flake. Even after salt-water. Will not work without it becoming patchy and ripping and it will not have fine grip. well that's discouraging. i'll give it a shot on handled rebar, but not very hopeful anymore
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2007 23:23:27 GMT
Not being a Taxidermist , so this is just a thought.
Snake skins are used on sheaths ( overlaying the leather ) for knives so it may be possible to over lay the snake skin on the Ray skin , since snake skins are fairly thin the grip shouldn`t be affected by the additional thickness of the over laid skin. As far as the skin breaking down , I don`t think it would be a problem if the skin had a protective clear coat over it. Also you need to look around for a skin with large scales on it. This, as I said is just my opinion , for I have been considering the same type of project.
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Post by Dan Davis on Sept 26, 2007 23:45:42 GMT
Now that is an interesting thought although I would recommend using decent-quality rawhide instead of same, since the rawhide is nodeless and therefore would not tear up the snakeskin. It is applied in exactly the same fashion as same.
You would also have a big problem with the tsuka-ito sliding around since the nodes on the same play an important role in holding it in place (and we are talking about eliminating the nodes).
In this case I would recommend using rawhide panels instead of a full wrap (or possibly a full wrap of rawhide with snakeskin panels glued onto ura and omote) so that there is more friction across the top and bottom of the tsuka core under the ito.
you will also want to epoxy the menuki onto the snakeskin, they will simply slide out and fall off if you don't do something to hold them in place.
Some carved bone ferrules glued into the mekugi-ana on both sides of the tsuka would help to keep the mekugi from tearing up the snakeskin as they are inserted and removed. Carved and checkered buffalo-horn mekugi would look pretty cool as well.
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