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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2010 0:47:31 GMT
Here is my quandry, I am going to buy a mail shirt and I have to choose between wedge riveted flat rings, and wedge riveted flat rings interspersed with solid flat rings.
My question is, which pattern would fill the bill for a wider historical period? I am thinking the riveted mixed with solid rings would work for a broader period, correct?
I am not concerned with someone thinking I am a schlub because my mail predates the period I am dressed for, I will explain it as being handed down from an ancestor.
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Brett Whinnen
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Post by Brett Whinnen on Jul 30, 2010 1:46:30 GMT
I think you'll find that the solid rings (whether punched or forge welded) came later, and from around the early 13th, where as the wedge riveted came much earlier. The next question will be are the rings round or a oval 'd' shape
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Brett Whinnen
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Post by Brett Whinnen on Jul 30, 2010 5:51:56 GMT
In saying that though, it seems that there have been instances throughout history where xrays have shown what seems to be solid links.
One thing I have noticed though is that completely flat rings seemed to happen in the 12th - 13th century or there abouts, it seems that prior to that the rings may have only had the overlap flattened.
What are you looking at? Which manufacturer?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2010 9:38:28 GMT
Alternating riveted-solid rows would be best - maille has been made this way for thousands of years. There are existant examples of Roman hamata made this way and there have been cutting dies found that could have easily cut said rings.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2010 12:56:04 GMT
What I'm looking at is the GDFB Haubergeon.
There is little likelyhood of the shirt actually being worn in a fight, unless some Huns show up in my garden, but I want a reasonably correct representation of a mail shirt that would fit a early to later Medieval time frame, and whatever fantasy based kit I come up with to boot.
Alternating rows it is then. Thanks guys.
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Brett Whinnen
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Post by Brett Whinnen on Jul 30, 2010 13:23:42 GMT
I'm looking at similar for me, code 2 I believe it is. The only problem is I want a coif with r/l ventail, but they don't do one in the same type...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2010 6:14:17 GMT
Ive seen the ventail coifs with riveted rings, but none with alternating rows. Try looking at some of the Euro sites, they may have them
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Brett Whinnen
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Post by Brett Whinnen on Aug 8, 2010 3:48:16 GMT
Now is my time for a quandary... I have the option to purchase a code 8 (round ring, round rivet) haubergeon for a great price, well under retail. The question is though, and I've been searching quite a bit but not been able to find anything definitive, was this actually used in history and roughly what time frame? Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2010 12:48:49 GMT
Now is my time for a quandary... I have the option to purchase a code 8 (round ring, round rivet) haubergeon for a great price, well under retail. The question is though, and I've been searching quite a bit but not been able to find anything definitive, was this actually used in history and roughly what time frame? Thanks If you are talking about dome-riveted; I've never seen a historic example of such maille. That's a modern way of doing it. Flat ring, wedge riveted is going to be the closest thing to getting the real deal. Now, I have owned dome-riveted before, and it is more accurate than butted - but only a little. Still weighs 30 lbs, which is overweight as far as historical maille goes. Now days, it seems they make the links too thick which increases the overall weight. Here is a good deal on a shirt that would be more accurate than the dome-riveted one as well as much lighter in weight: historicenterprises.com/haubergeon-wedgeriveted-maille-18ga-9mm-p-685.html?zenid=156a770a70c4425562c69897cefe12a2&cPath=101_141Now I personally wear alumnium dome riveted (8lbs) or Ringmesh (4lbs). I got over the 100% historically accurate a long time ago, because I don't like the money or the weight as far as maille goes. I do understand people wanting historically-accurate stuff for living history and all, but if I were just using it for cosplay and not real combat, I'd keep it as light as possible.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2010 13:03:06 GMT
If I didn't have plans on doing some living history, and timeline events. then it would be Ringmesh all the way.
I wonder how bad I would get gigged if I showed up at a Western front event and squared off with the II SS Panzergrenadiers wearing Maille and sporting an English Estoc??
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Brett Whinnen
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Post by Brett Whinnen on Aug 17, 2010 10:28:14 GMT
Thank you Sarge, you've helped me to make my decision. I'll order in a code 2 (alternating wedge riveted, flat and solid flat ring) hauberk, I'll also order additional rings to make an integrated coif with ventail myself. The extra weight was the decider.
Thanks,
Brett
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