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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 12:17:40 GMT
Hi everyone.
Has anybody ever tried comparing swords by simulating a real fight? When I was in Taiwan, a swordsmith tried to show me the quality of his blades by hitting other swords, edge on edge. I was really amazed. His blades took no damage.
Now it would be really interesting to see the outcome of such a test with other blades.
I tried a Fudoshin Practical Katana vs. a kitchen knife (Zwilling - German product). The Fudoshin Katana sucked.... ;D
Anyone got any links to blade vs. blade vids? If yes, please post the links.
Thank you
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 12:59:34 GMT
I’ve seen Paul do some edge on edge testing on some of his videos. though generally I don’t think many people do edge on edge tests because of the potential damage it can do to your sword.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 13:34:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 13:36:17 GMT
Panda,The mere thought of one of my blades striking another gives me the cold sweats-if I was independently wealthy and could replace said blades-perhaps.I'd rather lose a testicle than deliberately destroy a sword!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 13:38:55 GMT
"I'd rather lose a testicle than deliberately destroy a sword!"
WHAT!?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 14:11:15 GMT
Can´t access that video... not available for Germans, AAAHHHHHHHHH!
Well, looks like I need to get rich. I would make a lot of tests to find out which blades are really good.
Anyone ever accidently hit something hard with his sword and it took no damage?
Mr. Southren, what happened to the swords that underwent destructive testing? They´d be suitable for edge on edge testing wouldn´t they?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 14:13:12 GMT
"I'd rather lose a testicle than deliberately destroy a sword!" WHAT!? At my age there just for decoration!lol ;)Panda-Im sure if you look through the cutting vids you'll find many misplace cuts-if you check out this one-I sliced the corner offmy stand with zero damage to the blade-my heart almost stopped however!Sorry,cant seem to post it here-the title is, Cutting with Bambo Matt Kat...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 17:17:14 GMT
I think it was the dreynfest in austria when this was discussed. Some historical marial arts groups use sharp swords for sparrig, because they just bind differently, the are said to not slide at all.
That this has to be done with caution, the right equipment and only with long years of practice in steel on steel sparring is not worth discussing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 18:52:56 GMT
Testing swords edge-on-edge is never a good idea. And it doesn't show which sword is better than the other one. There are too many factors at play. Does one sword have a secondary bevel, is one sword hollow ground, how hard is the edge on one of them, does it have a primary bevel.... etc. A good sword is measured by how well it cuts, how well it handles, how well it thrusts, and many, many more, but how well a sword fares up against another swords edge is not one of them.
Edited for an e.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 19:02:09 GMT
Edge on edge "testing" is meaningless. Two reasons:
1) You could take a sword made by a modern day Mukansa smith in Japan and hit it's edge with a Masahiro's and, depending on how it is struck, the Masahiro has just as good a chance of breaking the shinsakuto as the shinsakuto does breaking it. Blade shape, hardness, angle of the strike, etc. all play a VERY big roll in how well a sword will stand up to hard contact along the edge.
2) You don't hit swords edge on edge in a real sword fight. You may hit spine on edge or shinogi on edge when parrying, but not edge on edge. That will just damage the sword regardless of quality. The key of a swordfight is hitting edge on human. For that kind of testing, we have tameshigiri.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 19:05:28 GMT
Dang, Master beat me to it.
Edge on Edge only really tests hardness. If you took one of our standard ~55 HRC swords and went edge to edge with a sword made from tungsten carbide, you'd probably find that our 55 HRC sword has a big ol gash in it. As far as the tungsten blade goes, it might have survived that blow, but it wouldn't survive being a sword.
Swords are soft for a reason. It's so they can bend and flex and not snap in half when you have less then perfect edge alignment.
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Dom T.
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Post by Dom T. on Jul 23, 2010 20:14:09 GMT
Hmph. Myth Busters actually had to test it? Why didn't they just ask us? We already knew the answer, and it would've saved them a bit of money.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2010 4:34:51 GMT
Makes for good TV.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2010 5:20:02 GMT
Yeah, in a real sword fight, you Parry a blow or avoid it, if you look a very old swords both from Euro and Japan, you can see little angled nicks, that's it, that from Parrying strikes, not Edge on Edge....SanMarc.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2010 10:40:11 GMT
Especially the second vid shows the results of edge to edge contact. This series is actually one of the best and most neutral comparisons regarding western and japanese swords. They got a very good guy, Stephan Roth, aswell. So it's certainly worth watching.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2010 19:51:05 GMT
That second vid has become an all time favorite of mine =D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2010 19:56:07 GMT
Yeah, all euro's fans just LOVE to see the superiority of western medieval swords
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2010 2:41:14 GMT
those were some decent vids... even if i dont speak german. and in the second one, did any one notice the tomato sweating before it was executed?
back to the OP... as you saw in the second vid... that is what would be considered destructive testing... DESTRUCTIVE being the key word. in CMA a parry is done withe the flat of the blade... some other arts do also if i remember right. there was a whole thread regarding edge contact when parrying. there are types of blades that do have a blunt edge, or forte, near the handle for such purpose, however. as for testing this manner... why? just isnt needed. when a sword is used ideally, that wouldnt come into play.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2010 3:24:42 GMT
Chenessfan, those were excellent videos. Thank you for posting them. I really enjoyed that.
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