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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 13:12:46 GMT
Hey guys
When looking over the amount of kats reviewed here on SBG it really becomes obvious how little distal taper most kats have. A good western sword normally goes from 6mm to about 2mm at the tip. This depends on the type of course but most medieval sword have a good amount of distal taper. Kats on the other hand seem to go from 6-8mm down to 4-5mm at the kissaki. Why only such a small amount? Anything to do with DH heat treat? The blade shape alone can't be the reason, medieval sabers of similar shape have much more distal taper aswell...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 16:26:14 GMT
Been curious about that myself, actually. My very basic understanding is that it has to do with the structural integrity of the blade. A katana that's very slim at the business end is easier to damage with a bad cut against a tough target. Keep in mind that Japanese swords weren't made the same way as European ones. Here's an article on niku by Keith Larman, where he also briefly mentions the issues you face with a thinner edge/blade: www.bugei.com/niku.htmlBasically, a strong distal taper would mean a sharper blade, but also greater risk for ruined edges, bends and breakage. At least as far as I can tell. ...So, why is this thread in Fantasy Swords? Seems like it should belong in the Japanese forum. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 17:09:40 GMT
Oh, crap, I wanted to post that in the japanese forum. Mods, please?? Structual integrity with a slim blade? What about rapiers or XV longswords? Only difference is the heat treat... maybe DH requires a thicker blade? (Ha, I've always thought TH to be superior to DH... am I right?  ). Of course the bad japanese iron ore could be the reason the thicker blades... as it is the reason for the DH. |
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 17, 2010 17:34:19 GMT
Pretty sure it has nothing to do with DH vs TH, or anything with the quality of steel, so much as just being a design preference. The Japanese used their swords differently against different stuff than most Europeans and other cultures...so they were made differently. That's about the sum of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2010 10:23:41 GMT
But even the japanese must have known that a sword with more distal taper handles better than one without. We all know how a sword with little to no distal taper handles, right (DSA)? Yes, they used their swords differently but the same physics used in western sword fighting and making applied in Japan aswell. No matter what kind of blade you make, a good amount of distal taper will always make it feel lighter and handle faster.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 18, 2010 14:39:21 GMT
But even the japanese must have known that a sword with more distal taper handles better than one without. We all know how a sword with little to no distal taper handles, right (DSA)? Yes, they used their swords differently but the same physics used in western sword fighting and making applied in Japan aswell. No matter what kind of blade you make, a good amount of distal taper will always make it feel lighter and handle faster. Bare in mind that Katana are relatively short blades with LOTS of handle grip... often around 30 inches of blade with 11 inches of grip (tsuka)... this makes them pretty damn fast as far as the push/pull leverage goes. Most Katana I have handled have a PoB around 4 inchs to 6 inchs out... if there was more distal taper that PoB would move closer to the grip. That might make the blade faster and easier to handle, as you mention, but it would surely sacrifice some of the cutting/slashing power of the sword. Katana were made to SLASH. I think its just as Random said... they are built to do what they do... thats it. |
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 18, 2010 19:24:54 GMT
Pretty much that's about it. I tried to check some of the better antique dealers after my initial post to see if they list both kasane measurements, but they all only mention just one, and don't specify. Just the "kasane". Some were quite thick, though, nearly 1/3". I'm sure these had some relatively significant taper...but nobody's saying.  |
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Dom T.
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Post by Dom T. on Jul 19, 2010 2:25:36 GMT
Those bigger swords definitely need to taper quite a bit though, right? Like the odachi. If they don't, they'd be all... Cold Steel-y, amirite? I wish I had an odachi right now just to see how much it tapers.
As for the reason to less distal tapering, I guess everyone else already hit it on the nail and whatnot.
This really needs to get moved over to the Japanese forum. It makes me feel OCD when I see 'distal taper on kats' to the side of 'Fantasy Swords', lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2010 4:29:39 GMT
i think i read somewhere that the kats were made to have no flexibility or not very much...
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 19, 2010 13:16:55 GMT
i think i read somewhere that the kats were made to have no flexibility or not very much... Well, being single edged weapons with thick spines, they have realtively little flex as compared to Weastern swords. If you watch some slow motion cutting of varrious Katana... you can find lots on YouTube... you can see them flex in the cut. However, they are thick and stiff enough that they don't sag or flex when you tap the base of the tsuka. I've seen some interesting flex tests done on Global Gear Katana and, on the other end, Howard Clark Katana... surprisingly flexable. |
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). Of course the bad japanese iron ore could be the reason the thicker blades... as it is the reason for the DH. 
