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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 4:09:32 GMT
Was observing some swords and I keep seeing the term "hollow ground". For example, the two different type of King Henry swords offered here, www.armor.com/sword075.htmlDue to many requests for an authentic hollow-ground blade on our popular Henry V sword, we are now happy to offer this option. The blade is hollow-ground by hand and finished to the same satin sheen of our other blades. The sword feels excellent in the hand with a swift and powerful action.Hollow Ground Non Hollow Ground Now, I have a basic idea of what this term means due to wiki, but exactly what does it mean and how important is it? According to wiki, they make hollow ground look like the edge of a razor, and say it greatly boosts sharpness and cutting performance, but decreases strength in the edge. What are the advantages / disadvantages of having a hollow ground vs. non blade? Will the hollow ground be THAT much lighter? Will it be worth the decrease in durability? What say you?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 4:27:20 GMT
In my humble opinion, I would prefer it on a thrust oriented blade or a light cut N thrust, but not on a heavy cutter.
There is less material backing up the edge, and it may lead to edge damage if misused.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 9:36:39 GMT
Yeah very much the case ........... I heard a rumour that hollow ground blades on these swords were originally like the old diamond cross section but had over time of constant sharpening (notably circular grinding wheels) lost material to become like the hollow ground profile ...... is there in any truth in this ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 12:59:41 GMT
I heard a rumour that hollow ground blades on these swords were originally like the old diamond cross section but had over time of constant sharpening (notably circular grinding wheels) lost material to become like the hollow ground profile ...... is there in any truth in this ? I doubt it. Sharpening was done on the edges and not close to the center where blades are hollow ground. The edge normally stays just the same, only a bit thinner. The real loss of weight is in the middle of the blade so sharpening shouldn't result in an hollow ground blade.
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Post by johnlundemo1 on Jul 17, 2010 13:33:02 GMT
The Hollow ground blade would do better against leather armoured apponents and the flat ground would be better against chain male or plate. Durring the Crusades against the Sarisans say hollow ground would do fine, slicing cuts. Actually a good thin flat grind with no secondary bevel from spine out to edge is best and most common historically on broadswords, kinda best of both worlds. Same thing for Japanese swords that are old and sharpened many times and all the nikku is removed and it is totally flat from shinogi. I personally like to make all my cutting blades in this way.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 14:46:22 GMT
There is less material backing up the edge, and it may lead to edge damage if misused. Chuck you are most correct, but as with swords there is alot of room for different ways of doing things. Hollow ground means the edge bevels have been "hollowed" out, where there would be meat on the bevels of a flat ground sword that is carved out on a hollow ground one. This usually makes the blade immensely light, or feel immensely light. You can hollow grind a blade but still have it very tough, it's all in how you make the grind. You can grind it like a proper straight razor and leave less than the thickness of a tape measure behind the edge for about 1/4" up from the edge, or you can grind it higher in a different way and leave more meat there. The Svante Nillsson sword is a great example of this, the height of the grind and the meat left behind the edge is very good because it is ground from nearly 1/2" thick plate, whereas a razor ground by my good friend Butch Harner is ground from 1/4" and ground so thin you can almost not see the edge if you look down the blade. Width of the grind also has alot to do with the geometry of hollow ground blades as well as the radius of the wheel on which they were ground makes a big difference in they're geometry also.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2010 4:50:08 GMT
I would love to see what a hollow-ground blade that was properly made could do with bottle-cutting, I only have 3 swords that have flat-ground blades, all of my other swords have convex ground (Appleseed profile) blades, and the 3 swords with flat ground blades consistently out perform the ones with the convex blades at bottle cutting
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2010 4:52:34 GMT
Buy a Svante!
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Post by Matthew Stagmer on Jul 18, 2010 14:14:34 GMT
I have never been a fan of the hollow. However in many many historic examples it is the right edge for certain pieces. I am just stubborn and prefer a more hand made look.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2010 20:23:25 GMT
Hollow grinding will make for a lighter, generally sharper blade, but I think retaining that edge would be more difficult. Also there is the problem that it has a tendency to "stick" in the target sometimes. Try using a hollow-ground axe sometime!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2010 22:02:31 GMT
So basically, the signifigant decline of durability is not worth the loss of weight and little extra sharpness.
The type of grind that Odin described and uses on his blades sounds interesting. I'd like to find out a little more about it. Does it have a proper name?
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Post by johnlundemo1 on Jul 18, 2010 23:49:44 GMT
So basically, the signifigant decline of durability is not worth the loss of weight and little extra sharpness. The type of grind that Odin described and uses on his blades sounds interesting. I'd like to find out a little more about it. Does it have a proper name? I like to call it a "V" edge with no secondary bevel of course Hey let's make up a name;)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2010 0:42:58 GMT
EVERYtime I see John, or talk to him, the following happens.... So basically, the signifigant decline of durability is not worth the loss of weight and little extra sharpness. The type of grind that Odin described and uses on his blades sounds interesting. I'd like to find out a little more about it. Does it have a proper name? I like to call it a "V" edge with no secondary bevel of course Hey let's make up a name;)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2010 23:53:15 GMT
I wouldn't say hollow ground is weaker than normal blade. It's as stiff, the edge stays the same, it's just lighter... Very similar to what fuller does to simple lenticular blade...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 11:28:01 GMT
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