ecovolo
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Review Points: 95
"Ich bin ein Landsknecht."
Posts: 625
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Post by ecovolo on Jun 21, 2010 22:01:58 GMT
So, I'm thinking of purchasing a custom katana. I already own an MAS; I would happily go back to them in a heartbeat. The reason why I'm considering swordstore.com is that they're one of the few options online that *seem* to offer a sword with a well-made horimono-- like MAS. Note: The website for ordering a custom Swordstore katana: www.swordstore.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/002279.5.5939747595549692003/02/1ord/5ord-shin.htmlSo, I was wondering: Has anyone here dealt with them, or know someone who has, or has info on reviews of their service? Feedback, please. --Edward P.S. PM me if you're uncomfortable with placing a comment on the board.
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Post by randomnobody on Jun 21, 2010 22:38:24 GMT
My knowledge of swordstore is very limited, but they do have a reputation, and considering the link is to commission shinsakuto from Japanese smiths...quality isn't so much a concern, but the price won't be cheap. If you're okay with spending a few thousand, by all means, go for it. You'll get something good. I did email them once, several years ago, to resolve a debate I was having with an online acquaintance over whether their iato were sharpened and able to cut. He swore they were, I knew they weren't, I emailed them and they confirmed in my favor. Although they do have (did have? Once upon a time the site said they were sharp and could be used for tameshigiri...but I'm not seeing that now...) "steel iato" which are or can be sharpened...they ran far more than the guy says he got his iato for. By this experience, I can say that, at least back then, they were very fast to answer questions, and very helpful. They seem to have a firm grasp of what they're doing and who they're serving.
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Post by Ronin Katana on Jun 21, 2010 23:29:03 GMT
Everything I have read about them has been positive. Given their prices, people would make a lot of noise if things were not as advertised.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2010 0:57:21 GMT
I, too, have heard a lot of good stuff about them, being shinsakuto, but have actually seen very little of it.
What sort of horimono are you looking into getting? The good folks at Usagiya have a couple smiths that they work with who can make some outstanding blades, and I have seen decorative hi and bonji. Not much in the way of over-the-top horimono like something that would be found on a Gassan blade, but still very well executed.
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ecovolo
Member
Review Points: 95
"Ich bin ein Landsknecht."
Posts: 625
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Post by ecovolo on Jun 22, 2010 4:25:29 GMT
What sort of horimono are you looking into getting? Something artistic, for sure. MAS produces some blades with great horimono involving animal motifs that I like. If I can't find something comparable for my price range (read: under $2500+plus shipping), I'll go with MAS again. --Edward
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2010 16:59:29 GMT
I've dealt with them. Although I did not end up purchasing a Katana, I got a lot of info from their Sword guy. About the minimum you'll get a nice blade for is 6-8 K. Also depending upon fittings and all that could be more. Horimono would be more I'd suspect. I spoke to them and they explained that they dealt with mostly mid level smiths- Which makes sense because you'll pay 4 or 5 times that for a high end -or highly rated smiths work. He did say the work was very good and they sent me pics of a recent sword that had just arrived. It did look FANTASTIC.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2010 22:52:09 GMT
I purchased an iaito from them about 5 years ago. It was an "Instructors Grade" sword with an unsharpened zinc aluminum blade (so not suitable for cutting, obviously). I will say that the fittings and workmanship are of excellent quality, and although it was a little pricey, it is a very well made iaito.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2010 14:40:40 GMT
It think most of this has already been said by other posters, but just to throw in my ha-penny:
Basically Swordstore offers three kind of swords:
1. Iaito/mogito with aluminum alloy blades. These come in several grades, but the difference is just the fanciness of the fittings.
2. Iaito with steel blades. These are Chinese made blades that come sharp and can be used to cut.
3. Shinken. These are made by registered Japanese smiths in Japan. Nice, but not cheap.
I have had one of their aluminum iaito for about 10 years now and it has held up very well. I chose them because back then Swordstore was pretty much the only place where you get a decent 2.6 shaku iaito (things are a bit better now), but I have been very happy with the iaito and would choose them again just for that.
I have personally seen and handled about a dozen or so of their aluminum models and one of their steel iaitos. All have been nicely balanced swords with very nice fittings. Things like tsuka shaping and wrap quality on all of them were among the nicest non-custom work I've seen.
Swordstore is a well known shop in iaido circles and mostly people have had good experiences with them.
If you have the financial means to go for one of their shinken I'm sure you'll get a really nice sword. With horimono and all, you might be easily talking about $10K, though...
If you decide to go the shinken route, you should note that Swordstore is by no means the only place that can get you in contact with a Japanese smith, so you should check out other places too.
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Post by swordenthusiast on Apr 3, 2021 18:19:41 GMT
I am talking with them right now, and I was initially about to make a purchase. However, when I asked about using T10 steel, I received the following:
T10 is not really good. Yes, the numbers would be around 1095 but here’s the thing, good blades need some impurities and there needs to be some leeching of excess impurities. As for the clay, probably the most proprietary of information, I can say that clay that is too heavy, too wet, or too light will not survive the fire properly and the quenching process will fail. Finding just the right clay is one of the essential steps to making a successful blade. Nobody seems to talk about it, throwing out terms like “T10” without having the metallurgy behind the process to understand.
I’m no metallurgist, but everything I’ve read here and on SFI would seem to counter the feedback from the vendor. Can someone here clear this up?
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Post by JH Lee on Apr 3, 2021 20:06:32 GMT
Here's my recent experience with swordstore.com.
I wanted a particular design tsuba they had on their site. So, I paid the high fee and the crazy high shipping fee. It was advertised as "blacked bronze." What I actually got was poorly cast iron. Casting lines everywhere. It was beyond terrible. I've seen better on eBay craptana from China.
Oh, and the best part. It wasn't "blackened" with any kind of patina, natural or otherwise. No, it was primer paint. That's right, folks. Just regular black primer paint that was gummy to the touch and started rubbing and flaking off.
I emailed them about it, and they ghosted me. Not even an apology. So, do business with this garbage company at your own risk. I know I never will again.
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Post by senna1 on Apr 3, 2021 23:34:31 GMT
My iaito is from them, circa early 2000s, and it is an excellent tool which I still have and use. It was not inexpensive. The proprietor is a well known and respected martial artist in the traditional JSA realm, and I very much suspect serious JSA practitioners is their primary target audience.
Their steel "iaito" run ~$1400-2k and are reportedly chinese production blades in koshirae of equivalent quality and finishing as their regular iaito. But I've never used one. They've been selling them a long time though, I don't think you need worry about the steel they're using. Is there a reason why you believe you "need" T10?
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Post by swordenthusiast on Apr 4, 2021 15:43:54 GMT
My iaito is from them, circa early 2000s, and it is an excellent tool which I still have and use. It was not inexpensive. The proprietor is a well known and respected martial artist in the traditional JSA realm, and I very much suspect serious JSA practitioners is their primary target audience. Their steel "iaito" run ~$1400-2k and are reportedly chinese production blades in koshirae of equivalent quality and finishing as their regular iaito. But I've never used one. They've been selling them a long time though, I don't think you need worry about the steel they're using. Is there a reason why you believe you "need" T10? Higher durability and resistance. However, I’m more cautious on the statement regarding impurities. While aesthetically a folded blade would be better. However, a lot of what I read here in the forum suggests there is also higher risk of retained impurities, and thereby a weaker sword, relative to a monolithic T10. I want to know that when I cut through tatami for the first time, I’m not going to regret my $1,400 investment.
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Post by JH Lee on Apr 4, 2021 15:55:37 GMT
There is no reason to buy from Swordstore. They may have had some quality back in the day, but my recent experience has soured me on them.
Their aluminum-zinc iaito is sourced from the same place as most other JP iaito outfits with better prices/customer service.
Their "steel iaito" is just Chinese production stuff (of Fred Chen/Dynasty/Huanuo derivative) dressed up in different fittings. There are tons more options today than back when Swordstore was one of a few places that offered such stuff. In fact, if you want a good, serious cutting blade, save a few more hundred bucks and pick up a used Motohara/Evolution katana from here in the classifieds.
Based on my recent firsthand experiencd, Swordstore fittings are cheaply cast junk. And their customer service is garbage.
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Post by swordenthusiast on Apr 4, 2021 16:21:52 GMT
There is no reason to buy from Swordstore. They may have had some quality back in the day, but my recent experience has soured me on them. Their aluminum-zinc iaito is sourced from the same place as most other JP iaito outfits with better prices/customer service. Their "steel iaito" is just Chinese production stuff (of Fred Chen/Dynasty/Huanuo derivative) dressed up in different fittings. There are tons more options today than back when Swordstore was one of a few places that offered such stuff. In fact, if you want a good, serious cutting blade, save a few more hundred bucks and pick up a used Motohara/Evolution katana from here in the classifieds. Based on my recent firsthand experiencd, Swordstore fittings are cheaply cast junk. And their customer service is garbage. Personally leaning against swordstore.com. However, if one wants a custom made katana, what other options are there really outside go Angel. If I want to pay that price, I'll fly to Japan and get an authentic shinken. I'm looking for something in the sub $1,500 price range that I can customize based on my size and my history. I've looked at Huawai, Hanbon, Lyue, Ryan, Sino/JKOO, Northshire, Swords of the East, Katanas for Sale, and Samurai Sword Store. However, all of these are disparaged somewhere within the forum or on the main SBG site. Lots of people mention other options, but nobody really offers up who they are.
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Post by vidar on Apr 4, 2021 19:51:24 GMT
Buy a basic katana from Hanwei, Dragon King or Huawei and send it over to cottontail customs to modify to your wishes.
Or if you’re patient, Michael Sabatier, a French smith, can make an awesome custom sword for 2500€. But the lead time is easily a year.
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Post by bradc on Apr 4, 2021 23:19:03 GMT
There is no reason to buy from Swordstore. They may have had some quality back in the day, but my recent experience has soured me on them. Their aluminum-zinc iaito is sourced from the same place as most other JP iaito outfits with better prices/customer service. Their "steel iaito" is just Chinese production stuff (of Fred Chen/Dynasty/Huanuo derivative) dressed up in different fittings. There are tons more options today than back when Swordstore was one of a few places that offered such stuff. In fact, if you want a good, serious cutting blade, save a few more hundred bucks and pick up a used Motohara/Evolution katana from here in the classifieds. Based on my recent firsthand experiencd, Swordstore fittings are cheaply cast junk. And their customer service is garbage. Back in the day they were the distributor for Nosyudo Iaito but there was a falling out between the companies including rights to use the name Nosyudu in North America. I am not sure where they get their current Iaito from but it is not Nosyudo Japan so there are likely some major differences in the product. (I only have one of their old Japan Noyudo made swords from about 15 years ago, new swords from Nosyudo in Japan are still very high quality).
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Post by swordenthusiast on Apr 5, 2021 5:35:41 GMT
Buy a basic katana from Hanwei, Dragon King or Huawei and send it over to cottontail customs to modify to your wishes. Or if you’re patient, Michael Sabatier, a French smith, can make an awesome custom sword for 2500€. But the lead time is easily a year. Thank you for the advice.
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Post by senna1 on Apr 5, 2021 14:40:17 GMT
There is no reason to buy from Swordstore. They may have had some quality back in the day, but my recent experience has soured me on them. Their aluminum-zinc iaito is sourced from the same place as most other JP iaito outfits with better prices/customer service. Their "steel iaito" is just Chinese production stuff (of Fred Chen/Dynasty/Huanuo derivative) dressed up in different fittings. There are tons more options today than back when Swordstore was one of a few places that offered such stuff. In fact, if you want a good, serious cutting blade, save a few more hundred bucks and pick up a used Motohara/Evolution katana from here in the classifieds. Based on my recent firsthand experiencd, Swordstore fittings are cheaply cast junk. And their customer service is garbage. Back in the day they were the distributor for Nosyudo Iaito but there was a falling out between the companies including rights to use the name Nosyudu in North America. I am not sure where they get their current Iaito from but it is not Nosyudo Japan so there are likely some major differences in the product. (I only have one of their old Japan Noyudo made swords from about 15 years ago, new swords from Nosyudo in Japan are still very high quality). IIRC, the "falling out" was Nosyudo losing a Federal lawsuit for breach of contract that resulted in a judgement they chose not to pay, which has basically rendered legitimate US distribution of their iaito impossible, as they were (and may still be?) subject to seizure and confiscation upon importation. Reading between the lines, several would-be distributors have gotten burned over the years.
Contrary to Mr. Lee's experience (though in no way invalidating it as a data point to consider), I found Mr. Polland easy to communicate with when making my order those years ago. If you like his answers; great. If not - go elsewhere. I don't see anything fundamentally incorrect in his answers to you - what specific flavor of high-carbon steel your sword is made of is much less important than whether the forge can/bothers to do a proper heat treat and shapes the blade properly, and whether or not they can make proper fittings/tsuka. As an end user/practitioner, I care very little if my sword is T10, 1095, 1075, 1060, or 65mn, etc - they can all be used very successfully. Or poorly.
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Post by JH Lee on Apr 5, 2021 15:11:56 GMT
Senna1, I think the part to consider is "years ago." A lot of people were happy with Swordstore back in its heyday and they were one of the few go-to places for JSA practitioners and casual enthusiasts alike. Much would seem to have changed since then.
Agreed on all of your other points though. Anthony DiCristafano used to make absolute tanks out of 1050. Rick Barrett's 1075 gained a reputation of being bulletproof. Howard Clark's 1086M are said to be likewise tough as nails. But in each case, the skill of the smith is what made the difference, not the steel designation.
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Post by swordenthusiast on Apr 5, 2021 18:33:43 GMT
Back in the day they were the distributor for Nosyudo Iaito but there was a falling out between the companies including rights to use the name Nosyudu in North America. I am not sure where they get their current Iaito from but it is not Nosyudo Japan so there are likely some major differences in the product. (I only have one of their old Japan Noyudo made swords from about 15 years ago, new swords from Nosyudo in Japan are still very high quality). IIRC, the "falling out" was Nosyudo losing a Federal lawsuit for breach of contract that resulted in a judgement they chose not to pay, which has basically rendered legitimate US distribution of their iaito impossible, as they were (and may still be?) subject to seizure and confiscation upon importation. Reading between the lines, several would-be distributors have gotten burned over the years.
Contrary to Mr. Lee's experience (though in no way invalidating it as a data point to consider), I found Mr. Polland easy to communicate with when making my order those years ago. If you like his answers; great. If not - go elsewhere. I don't see anything fundamentally incorrect in his answers to you - what specific flavor of high-carbon steel your sword is made of is much less important than whether the forge can/bothers to do a proper heat treat and shapes the blade properly, and whether or not they can make proper fittings/tsuka. As an end user/practitioner, I care very little if my sword is T10, 1095, 1075, 1060, or 65mn, etc - they can all be used very successfully. Or poorly.
Senna, as a practitioner, do you not feel some steels retain a better edge than that others?
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