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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2010 16:45:47 GMT
Yes i have one reason. I wann cheness o-katana. The size is good. One thing i hate its a fake hamon. btw SBG review tells nothing bad about it. Cheness have 30.9 mm width instead of 34-35mm. I like that. And of course the 9260 spring steel. Anyone can say me cheaper steel that can do that? And its extremely durable. Awesome-- someone actually read the reviews . I have to ask: Can you order directly from Cheness' website? I've heard that the UK has some harsh laws regarding edged weaponry; does this include online orders? Edit: Found this online for a UK sword dealer; hope it helps: www.bujinkan-store.com/katanas/o-katana/ But if it will be good quality o-katana it will satisfy me. I have Cheness' 9260 O-katana. I can say from personal experience that it's well constructed and can take a beating. You're getting your money's worth if you buy it. --Edward Oooooh! Nice to know there are some European Cheness dealers. I must have missed this one. Saved for future reference. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2010 17:15:23 GMT
You really should direct your attention away from cheness. The reviews on the SBG site are incredibly outdated and should be taken with a healthy pinch of salt. Being a sword collector also in the UK I understand how important it is to get good value for your money. Cheness WONT provide this for you. The prices and selection available here are already bad so don't waste your money on an already over priced sword. No offense, but who are you to tell him what he should consider good value for his own money? It's only a "waste" if it actually disappoints him. Besides, even if he does end up disappointed, so what? It's not the end of the world and he'll have learned something from it. What's with this great collective fear of screwing up a little bit?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2010 17:49:45 GMT
For anyone that wants to perpetuate the cheness myth then please provide some form of demonstrable evidence to back up their massive cost verses quality deficit. What do you wanna see? Cutting vids? Destruction tests? Heat treat demonstration? I can give you that.
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Post by YlliwCir on Jun 2, 2010 18:33:30 GMT
For anyone that wants to perpetuate the cheness myth then please provide some form of demonstrable evidence to back up their massive cost verses quality deficit. What do you wanna see? Cutting vids? Destruction tests? Heat treat demonstration? I can give you that. Gentlemen, He didn't ask the pros and cons of Cheness products. This is the problem when people start giving out "opinions" instead of answering the OP's question. It becomes about these "opinions" and not about the original topic of the thread. Those of you who want to discuss the pros and cons of Cheness start your own thread and sling as much crap at each other as you like. It's the polite thing to do.
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ecovolo
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"Ich bin ein Landsknecht."
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Post by ecovolo on Jun 2, 2010 18:40:05 GMT
What do you wanna see? Cutting vids? Destruction tests? Heat treat demonstration? I can give you that. Gentlemen, He didn't ask the pros and cons of Cheness products. This is the problem when people start giving out "opinions" instead of answering the OP's question. It becomes about these "opinions" and not about the original topic of the thread. Those of you who want to discuss the pros and cons of Cheness start your own thread and sling as much crap at each other as you like. It's the polite thing to do. Well, I was going to post about how yet another Cheness argument would be more easily taken care of by sending the OP a link to the reviews section and have them make up their own mind (in this case, the OP already did it; good on them ), but this says everything else I was going to write. Very succinct, RicWilly. +1 back at you. --Edward
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2010 23:19:38 GMT
Threads evolve. Questions change. The OP is a new member and seems to need advice. The only people that I see buying or asking about Cheness products are new members that have been browsing the SBG site reviews and are like "ZOMG INDESTRUCTIBLE SUPER STEEL. ZOMG CUTS A STEEL BARREL."New members may not even know their are alternatives. Isn't it strange that the members that I would consider more knowledgeable dont sing praises for cheness or talk about the next cheness sword they will be buying or what wonderful new things cheness are doing to improve their line.
Importing into the UK is a massive hassle. Why shouldn't I point out that he would be saving himself a lot of time and money by looking to better brands that are available and ship from UK sellers?
Ecolovo: The reviews are out of date.
Chenessfan: Every single time you miss the point of cost verses quality.
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ecovolo
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Post by ecovolo on Jun 2, 2010 23:32:40 GMT
Threads evolve. Questions change. The OP is a new member and seems to need advice. If the OP wants advice, they'll ask for it. What the OP wanted was information on sellers, not the quality of katana brands. The only people that I see buying or asking about Cheness products are new members that have been browsing the SBG site reviews and are like "ZOMG INDESTRUCTIBLE SUPER STEEL. ZOMG CUTS A STEEL BARREL."New members may not even know their are alternatives. If new members browse the reviews, they *are* aware of alternative products-- they can't be missed on the list of reviews in the index. And the Cheness reviews, while not going into the ridiculous extremes of "indestructible steel", are favorable *because the reviewer believes it so*. Whether or not a prospective buyer decides to buy is up to them, based on that review. Isn't it strange that the members that I would consider more knowledgeable dont sing praises for cheness or talk about the next cheness sword they will be buying or what wonderful new things cheness are doing to improve their line. No, it isn't strange. If someone you think is knowledgeable doesn't believe that Cheness is a good product, they're entitled to their opinion. Personally, I'm inclined to read reviews on this forum and others before making a purchase --Cheness brand or otherwise-- versus taking a forum member's opinion at face value. Importing into the UK is a massive hassle. Why shouldn't I point out that he would be saving himself a lot of time and money by looking to better brands that are available and ship from UK sellers? Repeat: If the OP wants advice on other brands, *they'll ask for it*. Unsolicited advice is the main cause of arguments on this board. Ecolovo: The reviews are out of date. As of today, the most recent Cheness review was just last year; just like the Hanwei and Musashi katanas. As far as I can tell, there hasn't been any great change in Cheness product quality to warrant another review. If there has been such a drastic change in Cheness quality (or *any* brand quality for that matter), you, or anyone here, are welcome to post a review. --Edward
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Dom T.
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Post by Dom T. on Jun 3, 2010 0:04:54 GMT
Heeeeey! I said that we shouldn't have this degenerate into an argument before any of you! Where's *MY* karma? Sorry, deftones2, US person here, so I can't help you too much. Guess a few of us already answered your question though. BTW, Dynasty Forge does make o-katana as well. Here's a link with some stats: www.wiwingtiswordsupply.com/dynastyforge1060classbokatana.html (that's the Class B one) and here's the Musha class one: www.wiwingtiswordsupply.com/2105.htmlThe actual Dynasty Forge site doesn't really have any more info than wiwingti already has on those pages, I think. Also, just in case you didn't know, any well-tempered mono-steel can be as durable as 9260. It's all in the heat-treat, man. 1060 steel is also pretty much the same as 9260, just minus the extra silicone or whatever it is. Again, it's all in how good the heat-treat is. The second blade in that youtube vid is very likely a differentially hardened katana (and those don't really appreciate being bent). Uh, not saying that you don't know these things already. Just in case, yah? Can't think of anyone else who makes any other o-katana at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2010 0:26:49 GMT
Karma's to RicWilly & ecovolo (when i re-charge) for making great points.
It seems like anytime the name Cheness comes up we end up having a flame fest where everyone takes turns trashing the brand, instead of being helpful and answering the OP's question.
I personally don't understand some of the attitudes around here...
Many people here have bought & owned Cheness swords and had little to no issues with them. I myself, have owned a Cheness daisho that served me very well, and at a time when i was just learning basic swordsmanship they proved to be very forgiving when i made stupid mistakes.
In fact, i sold those blades to someone to get enough money to buy other swords, and in retrospect i wish i hadn't.
True, that some folks have had issues with Cheness in regards to quality, but from what i understand they have made tremendous strides to tighten up their QC tolerances. At the end of the day, you can get a lemon from just about any manufacturer, it happens. But Cheness has always been very accommodating in those circumstances and taken care of the customer appropriately.
I'd be willing to bet that for every person that had a problem/issue with a Cheness sword, that there were 10 others who didn't. You just don't hear from them as often because they don't have any bones to pick.
So, can we please lay off the haterade...?
Can we stop with the absolutely unquestionable "it is because i said it is" opinions?
Otherwise i gotta lock the thread, and i really would rather not.
Please....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2010 0:57:45 GMT
I'm so very sorry Ecolovo. I didn't know that your interpretation of how a discussion should flow was how every thread should play out. I better remember to be exact, formal and right to the point. Now I and others know this we can pick up any slight deviation, even in a related topic, and point it out. Fantastic. I must remember to never give advice. Even if the the member may not even know where to start I must wait for a specific question. Great. Another fantastic idea. How silly I was to even suggest that the OP may not be acting in his best interest. Buying a bad, overpriced product or importing it ? Fantastic idea +1 for all (LOLZ KARMA NEEDZ RECHARGING). I've been wrong all along. I really should hold back on this "unsolicited advice". I now realise how damaging it is. I better make sure I never suggest anything. I didn't think about the consequences. What should please a lot of you is that my opinion about Cheness products have changed. Cheness make incredible swords. They currently represent the THE BEST value for money one can possibly attain. In the last two years or so I havent seen anything remotely as good for anywhere near as cheap. Even some more expensive swords aren't as good. Even though some people say that the fittings are terrible I don't believe them. Look, they are obviously lying. I've looked at reviews from guys selling these swords and other members that all must have a basis on which to call those fittings great. That proves they are great value. I digress. I've got a lot of stuff to oversee. We have got the builders in. Here is a picture of the last place they fixed up. I hope it goes well. Fingers Crossed.
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Dom T.
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Post by Dom T. on Jun 3, 2010 1:10:28 GMT
Um... not helpful, man.
... Thread might get locked after all....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2010 1:16:01 GMT
I didn't know that the collective opinion and evidence about Cheness being poor value and quality was merely all subjective. I apologise as I didn't know that was the case
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Dom T.
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Post by Dom T. on Jun 3, 2010 1:24:02 GMT
Uh, duuuude, I'm actually agreeing with you on the Cheness thing, but that ain't the best way to go about saying it. It's your choice to do it that way though, I guess.
How about we go back to helping the OP finding other O-katana around the same price range as the Cheness one? That's what I'm trying to do, anyways. I can't help by finding a good UK vendor, because I don't live in the UK and don't know of any UK vendors whatsoever.
*EDITED TO ADD* Hm... the Hanwei Raptor Nanbokucho may sorta fit the bill. Here's a sorta-review: /index.cgi?action=display&board=swordreviews&thread=15085&page=1 Hope that helps at least a little.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2010 1:31:36 GMT
The best two are barrington swords and oriental weaponry. Each have prices slightly more or less than each other but the only decent stuff that they sell is Hanwei. There is the "samurai sword shop" which is based in the EU but they are completely over priced In terms of dynasty forge I have never found anyone selling their products in the UK or EU. BS has the nambokucho for £208. www.barringtons-swords.co.uk/hanwei_raptor_katana.htm
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2010 3:07:39 GMT
I'm so very sorry Ecolovo. I didn't know that your interpretation of how a discussion should flow was how every thread should play out. I better remember to be exact, formal and right to the point. Now I and others know this we can pick up any slight deviation, even in a related topic, and point it out. Fantastic. I must remember to never give advice. Even if the the member may not even know where to start I must wait for a specific question. Great. Another fantastic idea. How silly I was to even suggest that the OP may not be acting in his best interest. Buying a bad, overpriced product or importing it ? Fantastic idea +1 for all (LOLZ KARMA NEEDZ RECHARGING). I've been wrong all along. I really should hold back on this "unsolicited advice". I now realise how damaging it is. I better make sure I never suggest anything. I didn't think about the consequences. What should please a lot of you is that my opinion about Cheness products have changed. Cheness make incredible swords. They currently represent the THE BEST value for money one can possibly attain. In the last two years or so I havent seen anything remotely as good for anywhere near as cheap. Even some more expensive swords aren't as good. Even though some people say that the fittings are terrible I don't believe them. Look, they are obviously lying. I've looked at reviews from guys selling these swords and other members that all must have a basis on which to call those fittings great. That proves they are great value. I digress. I've got a lot of stuff to oversee. We have got the builders in. Here is a picture of the last place they fixed up. I hope it goes well. Fingers Crossed. This is what i am talking about, people who think their opinions are absolutely positively unquestionable points of fact and make it their goal to kick & scream if anyone disagrees. Why don't you climb down off of that horse and have a breather... Take a few days to relax,... and shoot, who knows,... maybe a little hindsight will help you realize just how immature you have behaved here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2010 3:11:28 GMT
Sorry folks for the disturbance, and a special apology to the OP.
Please carry on... ;D
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Post by randomnobody on Jun 3, 2010 3:25:59 GMT
So...did we ever find a good solution? That bujinkan store site seems to be a decent start, and their prices aren't too much higher than one would pay in the US. The o-kat for 250 pound (roughly $360 US) is probably as fair a price as you'll be getting in the UK. I also have noticed that I missed an edit to the post answering my initial post. Yeah, I was afraid it was the "super-steel" nonsense. As others have already said...there are many other swords, same price and cheaper, that can do those same things. Nevertheless, if you're truly set on the Cheness O-Katana, which even I have to concede is probably the best-proportioned o-katana in the current production market, despite its shortcomings elsewhere, then it seems buying from the Bujinkan Store site is probably your best bet. So...have you decided yet?
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Post by septofclansinclair on Jun 3, 2010 5:50:32 GMT
I think Random has the right idea. He's made his point regarding his opinion about Cheness (and done so without resorting to diatribes) while also looking into the info the OP requested.
I think the more experienced collectors among us need to make our opinions clear. Saying something like this, for example:
"You've expressed that you want to buy a Cheness, and while I'm going to give you good info about where to go I should point out that, in the price range, there are options available that are widely regarded as better quality. These options in many cases have some of the things you like about Cheness and also avoid some noted issues. That being said, here's the info you wanted."
That goes a long way towards being a "friendly" forum than venom and tantrums. If Marc Ridgeway (for example) speaks critically about Cheness, I know I'll listen more closely because he can do it like an adult.
To the original poster - for what it's worth, if the Cheness O-Kat is what you've got your heart set on it'll probably make you happy. While the "super steel" in question isn't as magical as some people (or ad copy) would have us believe, it does have some benefits for people like me who have no access to nor ability to afford proper katana instruction - such as not taking sets as easily on flubbed cuts (even though I rarely practice cut). Though to be fair, well-tempered blades of many steel types are quite resilient as well. I appreciate that Cheness has filled a niche for some time and done so fairly well, but if they want to hold their own against Hanwei, or Ronin Katana, or Dynasty Forge, then they have some serious catching up to do.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2010 14:06:44 GMT
Thanks a lot people! Saw many usefull links And the advices are really acceptable. I see no sense to argue. For example i like Dynasty Forge Shobu Its 42". Saw video and destructive tests. Its beautiful. Also liked Munetoshi Akitsushima katana. Hamon is awesome. Saw the video in that review /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=14605&page=2 but its only 39.5 But anyway very interesting hamon for that price. I think cheness swords are not the best in beauty. Far not best, but wanted good O-katana. But i think it can be customized. That all is good. But the UK vendors seems to sell only Hanwei for decent price. Raptors have long tsuka not the sword. Really dont want problems with customs I will think though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2010 19:32:36 GMT
I own 3 Cheness Katana. Still happy with all 3
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