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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 1:41:49 GMT
OK, I think we have all beaten the "indestructible sword" myth to death about a thousand times over. In summary:
all swords break, even the besterest sword ever...yes, even if the sword smith meditated under a waterfall for three centuries before forging the blade.
I have heard some less hyperbolic variant of the preceding statement uttered many times by many different people....which got me thinking.
Can anyone think of a definitively destructive test on a sword?* That is to say, is there a test any reasonably strong human can perform that will completely destroy the structural integrity of the blade( in one stroke of the sword)? I don't mean that the handle will fly off, or the fittings will explode or something. I mean cracks in the blade, or an edge chip so grievous that the sword can no longer be used safely?
I can think of smashing the sword into an anvil or some other similarly hard object. I have seen the albion sword capable of striking a metal workbench with no deleterious effects...so I suppose that doesn't qualify.
*I understand that an improperly heat treatment can leave a sword very brittle, and thus susceptible to breaking, I am referring to a properly made sword of any make.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on May 25, 2010 2:28:44 GMT
Striking edge-on to an equally performing edge would be about the worst thing you could do to it edge wise. The test against an anvil would be utterley horrid to it. Especially if you struck it fairly low on the blade . The speed wouldn't be as high but the torque against the blade from the upper half of the blade's inertia would be tremendous - even against a hard stump, the torque will damage the blade. No sword would pass these sorts of tests so they aren't tests at all, just excersizes in destruction.
My question is "why on earth people would want to do all these tests?" The only reason I can think of for all this testing is for people who buy cheapo swords with which they don't trust the quality control - it can be very hit and miss and they want to discern if they got a lemon or a good one before they put themselves and others in harms way by using it. Of course testing a sword like that can be extremely dangerous to the wielder.
The best bet is to buy quality swords from a quality maker who is not paid peanuts, but is an artisan (or collaboration of artisans) taking pride in their work. Then you can trust that they would not submit themselves to the shame of putting their name to a lemon. And they will test it before they send it out into the world.
For my swords I test them after heat treat before they are sharpened by pounding the edge into an old Jarrah railway sleeper in the garden. That will find any cracks or improper temper that occured in heat treat. If the edge deforms it's too soft. If it breaks it had a crack. If it's good it will be fine. When I say pound I'm not talking about a golf swing, just a headmaster strapping.
After the sword is complete I will put it to it's function by cutting half a dozen soda bottles and I have a tough plastic drum which is very springy and I'll pound it on that to really reverberate it. All these tests will tell if there is a critical failure but they won't destroy the sword. And you won't get a lemon, so you needn't do it yourself.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 2:37:33 GMT
Once I saw a video where a guy broke a katana in one hit on a giant bone... not sure if it was just bad luck or not. For the record, I have a $40~ gladius that me/my friend would stab/bang aginst a tree, bang aginst a concrete wall, stab into a 4x6 and stab into a metal safe box. When I would younger. I still have it, it just has a crack in the grip and a slght bend in the tang...
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on May 25, 2010 4:21:39 GMT
I agree completely with Brendan on this issue though I have from time to time done some extreme cutting/ abuse-testing but I always had a reason
because I was asked to:
or to prove a point:
a test that would destroy a sword. . .
clamp it in a vise and bend it 180* very quickly. there's a FEW swords that MIGHT survive but not many and even those that did would likely have damage to the structure of the steel wether you could see it or not.
another one: place sword edge down on anvil, strike opposite edge with sledge hammer (the bigger and harder the better)
place sword gently in hot forge. walk away. done.
Shoot the flat of the sword with a high powered firearm.
split large rocks.
there are many other possibilities but why would you (or anyone) want to do this?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 4:25:23 GMT
Nice Vid brendon!! And Thats why I will have one of your blades some day...SanMarc.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 9:25:16 GMT
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Post by padric101 on May 25, 2010 13:07:42 GMT
Brendan Olszowy, thank you for sharing your philosophy as a sword builder and the videos, the world needs more people of integrity. Tom K. thank you for the informative videos Hyoujinsama thank you for the articles
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 23:38:26 GMT
This has been much more fruitful than I anticipated. Very interesting responses guys.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 16:27:29 GMT
While this is only partially related, check out this video and hop forward to the 5:50 mark:
And keep watching through at least 6:40. Even tho I don't speak german, I've watched the whole thing and was entertained.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 16:31:15 GMT
Hey that's a Ryansword!
Not fair.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 22:08:59 GMT
I have seen worse form... but like the deadliest warrior show this video is using low quality Japanese style blades.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 22:48:19 GMT
I have seen worse form... but like the deadliest warrior show this video is using low quality Japanese style blades. What makes you say that? I'm not sure who the maker is, do you have any idea? Personally I didn't think it anything strange that a DH blade would set when a TH wouldn't.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 23:23:30 GMT
I have seen worse form... but like the deadliest warrior show this video is using low quality Japanese style blades. I'm almost positive that Stefan Roth made both the Katana and the Longsword in the video, as he's well known for making both. forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=97859www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.13981.htmlI seriously doubt his work is "low quality," but if even if it was, since the guy makes his own steel and fittings himself, that would put the longsword on even "low quality" footing as the katana anyway. Besides, both swords performed excellently--that's what a DH blade does, the soft back absorbs the impact so that the blade doesn't snap, even if the harder edge cracked. I thought it was very impressive that the blade did not break under such insane abuse--I'd like to see any one of your swords fair as well under those circumstances.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 23:33:44 GMT
I'm not sure what smashing one edge into another means anything. Even if it could mean something, hundreds of identical test would be needed for anything conclusive, with all variables constant.
I do agree that the TH blade is better overall in mass warfare.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 23:58:51 GMT
I'm not sure what smashing one edge into another means anything. Even if it could mean something, hundreds of identical test would be needed for anything conclusive, with all variables constant. Good point. It's just a neat video about two different sword types that includes some GROTESQUE abuse under slow-motion. An interesting one-time thing. And it's not like the video's about one-upping in a "this is better than that" manner--it goes on to praise the katana as a "masterwork" and expound upon both swords as awesome weapons of war. This comes back to Brendan's "why would anyone want to do this?" point. Tests this destructive aren't good for proving anything--but they are good for entertainment and they certainly tickle some people's "semprini-measuring" impulses. It can make you feel really cool to walk around with your Darksword Armoury Knight, for example, knowing that one like it took a whole bunch of abuse one time without failing. You feel like you got something really impressive in your pan--I mean hanging on your hip. "I saw a video where a cheness tenchi like mine chopped a bunch of tree branches and wooden stumps to smithereens, my sword sure is TOUGH! Good thing I didn't get one of those pretty swords, because I doubt they'd be as TOUGH." "Awesome." Nobody (except a moron) is going to put their personal sword through the sort of abuse seen in "destructive tests" without reason or knowledge that they are offering up their sword for failure, and there are many tests for failure that DON'T destroy the sword that would ensure that your blade is proper and resilient for normal use. However, the "destructive tests" are very fun to watch and are certainly a selling point. I'd rather people be impressed by these needless destructive tests and buy a solid sword than purchase a piece of crap stainless steel SLO from trueswords or something. I just pray they don't try to do the sort of stuff they see in these tests with either of them.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 0:31:41 GMT
haha good stuff. Funny you mentioned DSA I just got the Crusader. This thing is tough, I can hit anything, though after the 5th swing I will pass out. It's so heavy lol.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 0:32:36 GMT
I have seen worse form... but like the deadliest warrior show this video is using low quality Japanese style blades. Just in term of geometry and the Overall build of the blade. It just didn't seem to be well designed. Even more so for how they used it. It was a very petite looking sword with huge bo hi, so niku was minimal at best. If the design does not match intended use no matter who made it the sword will be at higher risk. Steel type matters, but design and how the overall make of the sword is carried out is also important. Honestly anyone can hammer some steel and make a hamon on it. But there is allot more attention to balancing Details that makes a great blade.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 0:57:45 GMT
I have seen worse form... but like the deadliest warrior show this video is using low quality Japanese style blades. I'm almost positive that Stefan Roth made both the Katana and the Longsword in the video, as he's well known for making both. forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=97859www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.13981.htmlI seriously doubt his work is "low quality," but if even if it was, since the guy makes his own steel and fittings himself, that would put the longsword on even "low quality" footing as the katana anyway. Besides, both swords performed excellently--that's what a DH blade does, the soft back absorbs the impact so that the blade doesn't snap, even if the harder edge cracked. I thought it was very impressive that the blade did not break under such insane abuse--I'd like to see any one of your swords fair as well under those circumstances. I had a $200 sword that could perform on an equal level. It is owned by a fellow forum friendly. It was a spring 5160 that I cut 2x4 and smashed cinder blocks with. A repolish and the blade is scary sharp. Even so the blade was not designed for hard use by "traditional" standard. The katana linked shows potential, but the smith should find a skilled shitoka to help design swords for good general or competition use. That sword would be great for Iai, but otherwise there is allot I would change to be a more reliable all purpose sword.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 4:53:59 GMT
Wow, you post one little video of a euro smashing through a katana and everyone gets so defensive!
The euro was probably twice the weight of the katana and it's profile geometry is symmetric. What? Did you believe all the posts about katana's that can cut through tanks?
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 5:01:32 GMT
Wow, you post one little video of a euro smashing through a katana and everyone gets so defensive! The euro was probably twice the weight of the katana and it's profile geometry is symmetric. What? Did you believe all the posts about katana's that can cut through tanks? +1
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