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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2010 19:36:58 GMT
HISHI-GAMI Those little paper wedges you need while doing your tsukamaki. Rather time consuming and tedious. Sometimes difficult to work into the ito right. Made of rice paper, newspaper, or other thin papers. Your fingers stumble making a bunch of them, getting tired before even starting in on the task of trying to keep that ito tight, those diamonds shaped well, and the folds crisp. So I am curious if anyone here has tried this method from www.zatoichi.de/katana_01/tsukamaki-e.htmI could see how it might work ok, but also could see how it might not be so great. Having not tried it though I would not really be able to say. The basic idea of cutting entire tsuka strips of connected card stock for Hishi-gami seems like it could work well. I would have the question though if this really would only work for paneled same, rather than a full same wrap? I personally would always prefer full same over paneled. I can see how using this on paneled might help keep that squared tsuka look from happening. I haven't heard anyone talking here yet about this technique so thought I would ask about it. Maybe it is here but buried in the archives somewhere.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2010 20:53:22 GMT
A full same wrap done wrong is worse than panels. That means too little or too much compression. The extra wood taken off to fit a full wrap weakens the tsuka. The cardboard method is useful for straight tsuka. It's gonna look even and nice. The cardboard might get soft in time and by a lot of handling, so it may not last as long as a trad wrap with hishigame. It's sure it's gonna take a lot more time than folding the hishigame as making the board will take a lot of work and tedious measuring. Might try it myself once just to see and feel the difference.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2010 21:07:45 GMT
A full same wrap done wrong is worse than panels. That means too little or too much compression. The extra wood taken off to fit a full wrap weakens the tsuka. The cardboard method is useful for straight tsuka. It's gonna look even and nice. The cardboard might get soft in time and by a lot of handling, so it may not last as long as a trad wrap with hishigame. It's sure it's gonna take a lot more time than folding the hishigame as making the board will take a lot of work and tedious measuring. Might try it myself once just to see and feel the difference. Interesting point about panels vs full same. I think though the increased strength of a well done full same out weighs the risk of weakening with a little less wood. Just my opinion, but I feel a good full same is a much stronger tsuka in the long run. Having a nice same wrap covering the seams of the two pieces of the tsuka helping hold them together. You don't need to worry much about the work of measuring for this system. They actually have a printer friendly pattern so you don't have to do all the measuring. ;D Just print out the pattern on the material you plan to use. www.zatoichi.de/katana_01/images/tsukamaki/hishigami02.htm As for cardboard getting soft, you can use whatever material you find would work best I imagine. I can't imagine it would break down any more than newspaper or rice paper used for the paper triangles. Interesting point about it working for straight handles. So you think it would not work on the handles with a curve then?
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Post by Cottontail Customs on May 20, 2010 23:07:22 GMT
I've used this exact printout and was even able to scale it perfectly for the Ito width I was using as well as total length required for my Tsuka. this was however a lot of work for me as I was not able to feed my card stock through our office copier and had to transfer it later on with carbon paper. then with all the cutting and trimming needed it took forever. the problem I had with it fitting over a curved Tsuka was in order to have strong enough triangles, it had to be pretty stiff which then prevented it from forming properly. it just seemed like one thing after another was going wrong especially when I was about a quarter of the way through the wrapping I bent one of the pieces and could not get it to remain strong enough to hold the shape! I was very frustrated by this point and it only got worse when I decided to remove the whole thing after it was already glued down!! I might dare to try this again in the future but for now I'll go back to folding a bazillion little squares or not using anything at all. basically, there is no easy way to do this hishi-gami thing. grrrrrrr why doesn't someone just sell bags of these things.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2010 1:25:50 GMT
Thanks Frank for sharing your troubles with this. It is exactly the type of things I wanted to find out about. Sorry to hear it gave you so much trouble.
Yeah why are there bags of those little pieces of paper being sold?
I have to ask, you say cutting and trimming was quite a chore. Was it worse than cutting and folding the little triangles? I know that is a tedious task that can be quite frustrating and difficult.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on May 21, 2010 2:03:39 GMT
well, I suppose that in a broader view of things, the amount of time spent on the entire process for both methods was about the same for me. as far as the cutting portion of it is concerned, the alternative method was considerably harder for the fact that the card stock is just simply harder to cut through. large scissors weren't accurate enough and smaller pairs weren't strong enough. I had to cut with an exacto which kept jamming up when it sunk in deep enough. now that I have my Dremel back, I would probably use that if I were to try it again. anyone reading this should definitely give this a try because the results could surely vary. I have found little trouble in some of the processes others have had a problem with, so it depends greatly on the individual attempting it. seemed to work pretty well for the fellow who posted the tutorial there are very few steps in dressing a sword that I don't enjoy but the least favorite of mine is dealing with the Hishigami. in all seriousness, if someone were to place them in the classifieds I'd snatch them up in a heartbeat!
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2010 2:18:51 GMT
Again good things to know Frank. Like the different tools you tried and you varied success with them.
Hishi-gami the perfect recreational moneymaker for that OCD person who is bored. ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2010 6:35:11 GMT
Hishigame has to be made for the tsuka, so there is no standard but your own. I also use different sizes for a tsuka, longer near the fuchi and shorter near the kashira. I use different thickness too based on the ito thickness, and if there's a small curve on the tsuka sides I shape them a little different. For different wraps there are also different shapes. I use about half an hour to cut and fold enough for a tsuka. I bought a roll of rice paper for japanese ink drawing, and it lasts forever. Very easy to fold, and shapes after the ito better than for example newspaper. Since it's so soft, it will compress to one piece of paper and will form really well.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2010 17:13:31 GMT
Hishigame has to be made for the tsuka, so there is no standard but your own. I also use different sizes for a tsuka, longer near the fuchi and shorter near the kashira. I use different thickness too based on the ito thickness, and if there's a small curve on the tsuka sides I shape them a little different. For different wraps there are also different shapes. I use about half an hour to cut and fold enough for a tsuka. I bought a roll of rice paper for japanese ink drawing, and it lasts forever. Very easy to fold, and shapes after the ito better than for example newspaper. Since it's so soft, it will compress to one piece of paper and will form really well. Interesting that you use different sizes on the same tsuka. I guess you could always mod the pattern to your style of changing sizes. It sounds though like you got a system your comfortable with. I imagine if you tried this it would be awfully awkward for you as you have to relearn how to make it work etc. Thanks for the interesting info. Another for why this system may not work the best, at least for all uses or people.
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