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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2010 22:16:44 GMT
Gents,
I have been wanting to sharpen a wakizashi that I got from Kris Cutlery many (18?) years ago. The problem is that the handle is glued on. It appears to be very secure. I've cut redneck tatami (newspaper) and other assorted items, gourds, plastic bottles, etc..not all successfully, with the sword. Some things it works on, others it does not. It has a good curve to the blade and I may just not know what I'm doing. I tried a pool noodle the other day and couldn't touch it. My filipino bolo sliced right through it.
Anyway, I'm not sure what to do. I have been thinking about trying to sharpen it while it is assembled but this is going to be a pain and could damage the tsuba and habaki. Any ideas? Has anyone taken off a glued handle before? Thanks.
Todd
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Post by randomnobody on May 16, 2010 8:28:03 GMT
To the best of my knowledge, and I post this only because nobody else has responded...there really is no way to remove a glued-on tsuka, while preserving the same (edit: just realized this may cause some confusion...I am NOT referring to the ray skin here; I use the English word "same") for future use. Your only option is to unwrap the ito (which may or may not be reusable) and then break off the tsuka bit by bit. You'll probably have to use some sort of abrasive in the final stages, to reduce or remove the remaining glue...but at this point you'll be remaking a whole new tsuka core yourself, which can be a daunting task.
There are numerous tutorials on the subject here on the forums, but not everybody has the same access to tools, workspace, or even time and skill as others. I'm personally quite lacking in ALL departments...though I'd really like to redo my old Hanwei PK, which is also glued.
On the other hand, you should, in theory, be okay in sharpening the blade while all is still mounted...if you're careful. Exercise caution on the habaki-side, or give yourself an inch or so above the habaki to start sharpening. Take it slow and easy and you should do fine. Probably jus needs a minor touch-up on the very edge, I'd stay in just the monouchi (the primary cutting part of the blade, generally the first third or so from the tip down, in case that may be an unfamiliar term) and just use either a fine stone or some fine sandpaper on a block of wood (some advise cushioning the wood with a softer material for better blade shaping) and just work it across the edge, perpendicularly, from the spine, rolled over, on both sides.
Then again...I just use a butcher's steel on all my blades because I have no real desire to maintain their edges properly. I don't cut with my swords often and when I do it's cardboard so...yeah.
Check the rest of this maintenance section for pointers on sharpening, if you really want to take off the tsuka, check the customization section for people who've done the same...everything else, play by ear.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2010 12:39:52 GMT
Thanks. I feared you were going to say that. The "ito" appears to be wrapped cord that has been lacquered. I'm not quite sure how to do it but I was thinking about removing the kashira and seeing if the tsuka/ito combo was just wedge on and I could slide it off. I'm certain this is wishful thinking because the entire assembly seems quite solid and Kris Cutlery told me that it was glued. I dreamed that perhaps they were wrong because they haven't sold this sword in a while (isn't this what people do in hopeless situations?). I'm probably going to do as you suggest and just sharpen it while assembled, that is, if I can work up the courage to do so. Thanks again. Todd
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2010 22:09:14 GMT
since the waki is so old, have you tried a traditional disassembly and placing a wooden block across the tsuba and gradually tapping in with a rubber mallet to see if it will move.... that is if it is assembled with pins as well. it might be after so many years, depending upon what glue was used, it could have weakened. epoxies are a lot better nowadays, but even 20 yrs ago they still had some good stuff. if you can find out from the manufacturer what type of glue or epoxy was used it would help. it just seems to me that if you can avoid destroying a well built tsuka, then avoid it. if you cant then Random has offered you a good option.
also Random offered a good option of not dismounting the blade to sharpen it. i will give one more piece of advice to supplement what random has said... do not go to a knife or tool sharpener for help. these guys usually overheat the edge. i have heard of more than a few disappointed customers in that instance.
i personally use a bastard file to smoothe nicks and either sand paper as suggested already or a stone. then i follow up by using a flat diamond sharpener lengthwise of edge to buff.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2010 0:59:28 GMT
I'm doubtful that I can ID the glue. No idea if pins are used or not. The lacquered cord covers the entire tsuka from the kashira to the tsuba.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to think on it a while and fight my natural impulse to jump in and do something rash. I'm kind of a DIY weapon guy (bows, arrows, atlatls, etc...) but this is a difference of some magnitude.
Todd
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2010 1:46:49 GMT
I'm doubtful that I can ID the glue. No idea if pins are used or not. The lacquered cord covers the entire tsuka from the kashira to the tsuba. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to think on it a while and fight my natural impulse to jump in and do something rash. I'm kind of a DIY weapon guy (bows, arrows, atlatls, etc...) but this is a difference of some magnitude. Todd well there is always c-4, but that would be hard to get and rather extreme for tsuka removal. LOL. i sure dont envy you. i like a good challenge but i hate one that makes me wanna pull my hair out.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2010 2:01:32 GMT
I can't afford the types of challenges that make me want to pull my hair out- I don't have much left!
Ah, I guess it's no big deal. If the tsuka et al is secure and tight after all these years, I should be happy, although I haven't used it much. Now that the boys are older, they want to do some cutting. I'll just try to sharpen it without taking it apart. If it loosens up and gives me reason to rething my position, I'll try the C-4. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2010 3:43:23 GMT
A couple pictures would help to understand the issue a bit more.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2010 13:44:32 GMT
You might try and heat up the tsuka some.... with a heat gun ... or set it near a space heater or fireplace (just constantly monitor this). let it get and stay hot like that, then try the block method mentioned above to see if she'll squeak out.
If they used super glue or epoxy.... then the super glue will release around 180 and non-high temp epoxies usually release at 300 or under. Used to do this when making golf clubs.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2010 17:16:03 GMT
I'll try to get a picture posted tonight, if possible. The heat gun idea is interesting. If I understand the suggestion correctly, heat up the tsuka (without cooking it) then tap on the tsuba toward the butt and ...see what happens? :-)
Let's say this works and I can get it off, is this a relatively simple conversion to a traditional pinned tsuka? Like many projects I take on, it sounds like it would be simple but it doesn't always turn out that way!
I'm not dealing with an heirloom but I would still like a functional sword when I'm done. Thanks for your assistance.
Todd
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2010 20:50:04 GMT
Removing the thing is the less of your worries...
IF i was you, i would try cutting the tsuka by pieces with a dremel and make a whole new tsuka for it, the problem is that if this thing is epoxied to the blade, i guess you need some work on it.
1: Make a hole on the nakago is one 2: make a new tsuka 3: wrap it
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Post by sicheah on May 17, 2010 21:31:06 GMT
Given that it is epoxied, the best thing is to leave it alone. Think of it as a machete or your filipino bolo: the handle is fixed permanently to the blade. Though it is inconvenient, you could technically sharpen your sword while mounted as demonstrated by the late Paul Champagne: video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6511751461838547838#But then again if you are determined to remove the handle, some of the forum members here have offered their suggestions...though I am not sure of heating the tsuka cuz too much heat built-up might ruin the temper of the tang...but do go for it if you know what you are going. Would be nice to know the result.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2010 22:37:47 GMT
Sicheah,
Thanks. I've seen that video before but I forgot about it!
As for removing the handle with heat, C-4, Universal Solvent or light saber, I'm nervous that I'll get over my skis so to speak and destroy the tsuka. I'd rather deal with a few scratches caused by sharpening it while it is assembled than not having use of the sword because there is no tsuka.
I'm going to watch the video you have suggested and think about it a little longer.
Todd
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Post by Cottontail Customs on May 20, 2010 23:25:07 GMT
I would also say that you should not remove the Tsuka. you said that you have not used it much so the blade edge should be in decent condition and you could probably sharpen it enough with a strop and jewelers rouge. there is a video somewhere with a guy sharpening his assembled Katana in this fashion. it's not the best way but for just getting it sharp enough to cut it should do the trick. if it's good enough for shaving razors it should be sufficient for pool noodles a billion Russians couldn't be wrong could they?
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2010 4:08:06 GMT
I confess, I'm looking at taking off the secondary bevel and plan on taking a file to the thing. I was afraid of scratching up the tsuba. I've been busy this week and haven't had a chance to even get a photo uploaded. Ugh. I'm going to practice a little more before I actually attempt it. I've been thinking about getting one of those little belt sanders but I'd probably hurt myself. I'm worried I won't survive this hobby anyway.
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Post by randomnobody on May 21, 2010 4:18:46 GMT
Wait, it has a secondary bevel? Eeeww. Then again, I guess their older stuff did... Oh well, polish that thing off, it'll be fine. Just be careful around the habaki.
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Post by sicheah on May 21, 2010 4:36:17 GMT
If you are not comfortable with belt grinder, you could use the old hand polish method. Start off by grind off the secondary bevel is to use 120 grit 3M wet/dry sandpaper and some oil to blend the bevel. Don't bother with cheaper sandpaper . Even with 120 grit it will take a long time to blend the bevels. You could try the 60 grit but it removes more metal per swipe. Once you got the bevel right, polish it up to 2000 grit (or higher, it's up to you) starting from 220, 400, 800, 1500 and finally the 2000. There are tutorial on how to polish up your blade to a mirror polish. Be patient and check your work often. It will take quite a while to get it right.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2010 17:40:57 GMT
Well, it looks like a secondary bevel. Sounds like I need to post a picture.
Yeah, the habaki was my main concern...well, that and destroying the geometry of the edge. Trying to remove the secondary bevel while not banging up the habaki and the tsuba is the real challenge. I had thought about using a file then going to 220-2000. You think 120 would be better tool to start with instead of the file?
Thanks guys, Todd
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Post by sicheah on May 21, 2010 18:00:21 GMT
Picture would be great too.
Metal file should be fine. Try not to apply too much pressure while filling or you might leave some really deep scratch marks on it. The advice of "go slow, be patient and check your work often" applies even more for a metal file. Also make sure not to file on a single spot too long as it will take off a lot of metal and really ruin the geometry of the blade.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2010 19:29:37 GMT
I'm apparently quite the noob. I can't figure out how to insert photos into my post. I've hit the "insert image" button and it just adds in [/img]. Help is appreciated.
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