One for all the SCA fighters...

Thank you Rammstein. Normally I would go into an nice long explanation but I have a webpage set up in advance with the long explanation. So I will just point it out to him

Samuraimatt, I have a webpage dedicated to the basics of sword and shield fighting with videos.

mysite.verizon.net/tsafa1/pell/index.htm

Most of the techniques are based on keeping you shield in an idea position to protect yourself and getting around your opponents shield to hit him. Sounds easy, but it can take years to master. The webpage includes video. After you review the webpage come back and ask any questions you have.

Oh... and yes it is far more preferable to block with you shield rather then your sword. This way you sword is free to counterstrike.

I like longsword fighting myself, but at times it seems to unfairly get all the glory

The oldest manual I.33 covers sword and buckler. I have long suspected that it is incomplete or partial. It seems to cover a very small aspect of fighting. Sword and shield is mentioned in other manuals, like the Gladiatoria, but none offer a comprehensive fighting system.

The unfortunate truth is that sword and shield was taken for granted throughout history. Too common to be worth recording in detail. Longsword on the other hand was considered a more Noble art. The longsword texts were written for the use of Nobles in duels. Sword and shield was a more practical choice for men on the front lines.

As a result we have had to re-invent sword and shield fighting. People in the SCA, have been working on this for over 30 years. I think by now we have figured out every possible thing that you can do with a sword and shield. A man's arms and legs can only move in so many ways.

I have to step in and defend the SCA here. The weight of the rattan swords can be very comparable to their historical counterpart. My SCA single hand sword weighs 2.5 pounds with a balance point of 4 inches and an overall length of 35-1/2 inches.

As for the safety of hitting below the knee yes, you are right, we do not intentionally hit below the knee, but it does happen. As you progress in skill you will still block the blow regardless of where it lands. I find myself doing it quite often. SCA blows are thrown hard enough that if edge weapons were used in most cases would cause damage. And we do aim for armpits and other open areas. The edge of the rattan sword is shown in black or some other line. If a blow does not land with the edge it does not count and is called flat.

As for not dying. Yes, in melee guys will do things that normally would not be done if it were life and death. In one on one tourney, however, you do anything you can to stay alive; almost as if it is a life and death situation.

I am not saying the SCA combat system is not without flaws, but the realism is far more than your post would give credit.

All your points are good and valid Rammstien.

Correct, that there is no real threat of death. But even the modern military admits they can not reproduce that element into their training programs. The threat of death is even less in other forms of sword practice I do. In live steel we go at half speed, often times we don't even hit each other. I nrapier we use flexi-blades. Training with foam wasters does not scare me either. At least with rattan I know I might get a stinging bruise. Is there a better alternative? I have not heard of any.

Now concerning edge alignment. Not all weapons have round edges. Have you seen my war axe?



That is one big, mean, nasty edge. If my strike is not perfectly aligned, the axe will twist on impact and fall flat. I don't do any special training for war axe. I use my rattan sword for singles combat and switch to the War Axe for melee. The transition is pretty smooth. If my alignment was bad on the sword it would transfer to the axe. In general if you use the sword with bad alignment you will feel it in you wrist and elbow. So you don't see too many alignment problems in experienced fighters. You may see it in newbies.

Now the helm issue, we assume that everyone is wearing an open face head cap. Therefore all hits must be on the face-grill or below the earline. Hits to the top of the helm don't count, unless you opt to accept the hit for whatever reason. Armpits are perfectly good shots. A lot of people specifically aim for it. Why? Cause you don't have to hit the person as hard and they will gladly take the hit. Same goes for biceps and other lightly armored areas. So there is some difference in the hit calibration in different areas.

I did not mean that I as an individually know all there is to know of sword and shield. Infact I have much more to learn. Then there is a higher level of executing that knowlege. Knowing what to do and doing it are entirly different matters. The doing part is by far harder.

I did mean that despite the lack of good comprehensive fighting manuals on sword and shield, over the last 30 years we have learned everything that I think could have been put on paper 600 years ago. This knowledge is not only based upon what we do in the SCA, but also what members in the SCA have learned and developed in live-steel groups and other organizations that have different rules world wide. Many people in the SCA belong to other groups. The difference is that the other groups tend to be local while the SCA is international. So the knowledge we gain locally in our WMA training is transfered to masses through the SCA when we have events like Pennsic and 12,000 people gather together from different parts of the country.

I hope this puts into better context what I meant.

To make my rattan sword I first took a replica sword that I liked the weight and dimensions (it was a Windlass single hand sword that for the life of me I cannot remember the name of --it is no longer made) of and copied it by using an aluminum basket and a thinner piece of rattan.

There are folks in the SCA that have never handled a real sword but what occurs is the same thing that occurred in the middle ages. They try a heavier sword and find that they are two slow, so over time they find ways to make their sword lighter and quicker or shorten or lengthen it. Whatever they need to do to survive they adapt. In the SCA you have 30 years of adapting for survival to build upon.

What time period? What rigion? What class of people? Fighting in full plate armor with only the armpits exposed is limited to a very small time period in the 15th century, in one region of the world and to a very small number of people within that society. You are only focusing on about 100 years of swordmanship and ignoring the 3,000 years before that and 300 years after that.

Even within the tradition of Lichenuer you have armored, unarmored, mounted and unmounted figthing. Only a small perscentage of Lichenuer is based on halfswording. There is the cross-strike that is a high horizontal strike to the head. There is also the parting-strike, staight down the middle of the head. I won't go down the list, but I think you get the idea.

I believe in training to hit every posible open target. That does include the "grass cutter". A strike that wraps down low and come up to strike under the armpit. That can also be morphed into a thrust under the arm.

That is the source of all the confusion. The SCA is not 15th century, despite what people wear for their own personal protection. Regardless of if they are in plate, plastic or come out like some naked gladiator looking to get hurt, it is assumed that they are wearing mail or leather armor. No one is in plate (even if they are). The helms are assumed to be head caps, not great helms.

Picture us all as vikings or early crusaders.

I catch enough sh1t for that from even people I practice with for my plastic. It protects me so I wear it. However, I recently started fighting in the MSR and they have strict rules forbidding Plastic. I have orderd more leather and I will have to go all leather and mettle.

The MSR is specificaly based on the Crusader Kingdon or Acre. It is completely seperate from the SCA. You can check it out here:
www.kingdomofacre.org/

I'm glad this topic sparked a hearty discussion. The reason I asked the SCA fighters is that I believe they spar in the closest practical way, and have thus had plenty of time to "flesh out" the techniques that do and don't work. For the best advice, I would turn to someone who has actually killed another man in single combat with a sword and shield. Unfortunately, there are rather few of those around. No, SCA is not an actual medieval battle. That's because membership would decline rapidly if everyone fought to the death. However, the experience gleaned from mock combat, coupled with accurate historical knowledge, can make someone as expert as possible in our modern day and age. In much the same vein, a fencing bout is not a Renaissance duel. However, give an experienced fencer an actual rapier, and I would expect them to do rather well in a duel. Becoming familiar with the basic principles of combat is a huge part of actually being effective in combat.



On another note, Tsafa, when trying the snap strikes, my Gen 2 Witham Viking really doesn't want to snap. It likes to try and cut the world in two, probably because of it's ca. 5" balance point. Any advice?