Sharing some thoughts...

Hi Lance,
You and I share somethings in common. First we fight with different weapon simulators on a regular basis. Second, we both own many real swords of many different styles and from different manufacturers. Third, we do our own research and development,meaning, we start with available historical (and modern data) and add to that our own research and experimentation.

As a result of this, we have arrived at many similar conclusion. Here is a quote from my website:

"In any training system some compromises will have to be made for the sake of safety. Either, the weapons will be padded, or the moves will be slow and controlled, or the armor will be unrealistically heavy, etc... I am sure that when medieval knights trained they also observed some restraints. Not a good idea to kill ones own squires. My opinion is in that by training using different methods you will round out the shortcomings and compromises of any one training system"
mysite.verizon.net/tsafa1/pell/index.htm

I will also add some more comments that I think are very much in line with your conclusions.

On the issue of cross-guards, my conclusion as of this date is that for a single handed cutting sword, a basket hilt is the best form of protection. Any trapping options that you give up are worth the hand protection advantage. But you can still have it all with a historically accurate cup hilt with quillions or a swept hilt with quillions. A clamshell hilt (pappenheimer ) with quillions is another good option. All these are mostly post 14th century styles and reflective of the fact that civilians and military-men alike drew the same conclusion that you did Lance.

For a two-handed sword, I think the best historical option is a longsword with a cross-guard and side-rings. Now the cross-guard can be useful for trapping in close-in fighting, but as we have both seem to have discovered, it is better to keep your enemy at a distance and kill him there. So I myself have found few opportunities to use my cross-guard with the longsword. The rapier however is another story.

When most people fight rapier, they fight point-in-line and go for thrusts. That means that it is easier to know (or anticipate) where your opponents point will be. Using the quillion to trap your opponents blade or lock it out of line, is more feasible. In a cutting style, it is harder to catch the blade in this manor.

My training rapiers, are extremely close to the originals, except of the rubber tip we fit on them and the different tempering to allow for a slight bend. My live steel blades are also very close. Over time I have discovered that even small variations in weapons favor certain techniques while hindering others. I too try to isolate these minor variations and try to reproduce them in my rattan sword simulators.

I'll tell you something else interesting too. For a while I was wondering about how good my edge alignment really was when I fight rattan. It looks good, when I do live steel, but that is done at a slower speed and with little power. I was wondering if my edge alignment might be off when I fight rattan at full speed and power. The rattan sword has a round blade to spread the impact.

I discovered the answer to that question this past month when I started fighting with the beard axe. I bought a rubber head at Pennsic and attached that to a rattan handle. The axe has a very pronounced edge that is far less forgiving then a sword. If your alignment is off, the axe will spin in you hand and hit flat. I found that my alignment has been on the money all along. All my shots hit with the edge during my full speed and power fights. The axe has opened up a whole world of opportunities for me too. I can now get shots behind the shield that I could not hit before (because the head has depth). It also limits other areas. I can not thrust into small openings like with the sword. This is a good example of how switching weapons demonstrated a number of points.

Conclusion: it is best to train with as many swords as possible and with as many different weapon simulators as possible as often as possible.

Like I like to say: Experience Is Everything.

You might say that doing One thing and doing it effectively, is better then doing Ten things and doing them all ineffectively.

On the issue of single edge or double edge.... or for that matter shield or no shield.... heater or buckler... long sword or short sword... etc....

I will quote one of my teachers:"...you can fight with anything, if you use it right"

I have further interpreted this to: "You should NOT use a weapon as you want to, but rather as the weapon wants to be used"

I have found this to be true even among seemingly similar weapons. To give an example consider these two swords:



It first glance you might say that the one on the top is a hand and a half longsword and the one on the bottom is a swept hilt rapier. You would be deceived, even though the one on top is a hand and a half, the blade is to thin and the mass too low to make effective cuts. So even though you can fight with it in the traditional German style, upon feeling the sword out you will discover that it does not like being used in that way. This sword likes to thrust.

So then you might think that we have two rapiers that would probably respond very similarly. Again you would be deceived and I have aided in the deception this time in the way I am holding the rapiers. The rapier on the top has a 40 inch blade and the rapier on the bottom has a 35 inch blade. If we are fencing you will not know in advance and once you have gotten you accustomed to my attack range I will switch up so I lead with the longer blade. I will change my range without your knowledge. But that is not the point that I trying to bring out. There is a more subtle difference in the way these similar swords handle.

The bottom rapier likes to make make blade contact. It likes to meet the other swords tip with its forte and guard, push it aside a bit and thrust straight in. The top rapier does not like to make blade contact. It likes to make angeled attacks. It likes to fake in from one angle and then come in from another. The bottom sword is capable of doing this too, but it does not do it as smoothly. It prefers to wrestle with its forte. The top sword, does not like to wrestle at the forte, but it can if it has to. You can not know this unless you practice with the weapon often and listen to what it tells you. This applies to all weapons (swords, axes polearms, etc.) and shields regardless of size, what they are made of, or if they are real or simulators.

This is what I mean by feeling the weapon out and discovering how it wants to be used rather then trying to force your way upon the weapon.

I watched the vid twice. Very interesting.

The Black helmet is being very effective deffensivly maintaining distance with the longpoint guard. Black does a lot of nice thrusts from a safe distance. When he tries that the hanging guard/halfsword defence he gets hit every time because he gives up range and does not follow up with anything. If you halfsword, you have to close in and do something. The halfsword is settting you up to grapple, you have to follow through. If you plan to use it just to draw in the person, then you have to quickly switch to something else when the other person attacks. Just sitting mid-range in a half-sword stance is going to get you legged sooner or later (as it did). I think black started getting tired half way through because I saw his defence weaken.

I saw white helmet execute a number of nice moves. He knew that he had to deal with the longpoint in front of him before he could get to his opponent. He had a good stratagy of beating the blade aside. I saw whitehelmet use the false edge very effectivly to knock the other blade off line and then strike back with the true edge. I also saw that in reverse in striking down the blade with the true edge and striking back to the head with the false edge. A few times he stepped into his enemies point, but we have all done that occasionaly.

I noticed one of the swords broke in the tang at the end. Seems to be the weakpoint for all two handed swords. I did not think that White was hitting all that hard either. What exactly broke Lance? Can you post a close up picture?

Some steel blunts sparring done...

Simon vs Lancelot
Simon vs Maurya

I too have used all sorts of styles and swords to get the most out of the training I have done. I have found that if you always use padded weapons you get a false sense of what it was like during combat because you don't know what a real weapon feels like. And as stated more than adequately sparring with blunt steel still requires a pulled blow, which does not replicate real fighting but does give a feel of using a real blade.

I have seen a lot of your videos Lancelot and think you are definitely on the right track to developing enough variation to be skilled in multiple weapons and styles.

Tsufa, your axe story has convinced me to try using one in melee combat. I am going to put a basket guard on it just like you and though it will be too heavy for single combat will have the power and the penetration to hit guys who think they are safe behind their shields. I also plan on working with the spearmen behind me to pull shields down or trap swords allowing for the guys behind me better shots. I am sure it will take a few battles to get used to it, but luckily for us SCA fighters you have the opportunity to try things and live to try again.

I will post pictures of my axe when it is finished. It is going to be a bearded axe designed for hooking as well as bashing. ;D

Fights can last a few minutes and even longer when big shields are used. It reduces the number of open targets to about 20 % of the whole body. It does take some skill to use a big shield because your own range and visibility is limited. It takes more skill to fight agaist someone who is using a big shield, because only 20% of his body is open at any one time. Have you seen my shield vs shield vids? The most important thing in a swordfight is not to get hit.

I like your avatar Redsamaurai. Is that you?

It is funny that you mention that Trueswordsman. I was talking to my knight (SCA mentor) last Wed comparing two fights I had. The first one with a well seasoned knight, which I did ok in. 1 in 3 matches where mine. Then I fought against another guys who had only been fighting a year more then me. Funny thing is that I did worse. I took 1 in 5 of the matches. I thought this was weird so I went to my knight for an explanation.

He explained to me that the knight fought in a manor that was more consistent and could be used against many different styles. I was being trained to fight in that style, so I am better able to understand what he is doing or going to do. The other fighter, uses an unorthodox method that, might have worked specifically against me, but can not be extended effectively to other fighters. He said that if I fought him a few more times, the weaknesses in his fighting would become more apparent and I would be able to exploit them.

Its kind of twisted, but makes sense too.

edit: I pulled myself off track. What I also wanted to say is that each of my matches against the night lasted several minutes. Both of us maintained a high defense and only through shots while defended ourselves. My other fight had much shorter matches. The other guy did a lot of charging in stuff while unprotected and it resulted in some double kills.

Which of these place is closest to you Charles:

Little Rock, Fort Smith, Conway?

I may have another option is you are in North West Arkansas.