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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 2:51:47 GMT
Alright, so I recently bought Paul Chen's Godfred Sword, and my jaw dropped. Everything was perfect, after I wiped the drool off it, that is. It was my first sword, so naturally, I was REALLY excited. And a beauty it was. But, during some medium cutting practice, the handle broke off. A problem with a lot of Viking style sword is that the pommel pushes up against your hand. I have big hands. And turns out there was a flaw in the steel around the rat tail part of an otherwise fine tang. I'm getting it returned. I expect to get store credit. I bought it for $400, and don't know where my money should go. I am a straight sword guy, and I like Jians and one handed western swords, but I want something tougher, and with a heavier ballance. I hate the rat tail tang with the nut thing, so that really limits my choices in the price range.
My choices are down to Paul Chen's Qi Jian, and his William Marshal one hander. The Jian looks amazing, but I have my doubts. The whole "forged out of one billet of steel" thing rules out the rat tail tang problem. But no one seems to know anything about it. I know nothing about its handling, edge retention and flexibility. The William Marshal sword looks really good. Peened tang, tough, heavy handling... looks great. But the Jian seems so tempting...
Anyone have any advice?
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Post by ShooterMike on May 3, 2007 3:01:32 GMT
Well...this might help.
The William Marshall has the threaded rod and hollow pommel of all the Hanwei medieval swords. The only peening is to flatten out the threaded rod.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 4:00:09 GMT
Another broken Hanwei western sword! They make such nice Asian blades. Why must they torment us with these beautiful but deeply flawed Euro swords? The Qi looks amazing. It's beyond my current self-imposed spending limit, so I hope you buy one, so I can at least enjoy it vicariously. ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 5:05:46 GMT
Wow! I was almost gonna buy this sword as my first!! I decided on a Viking, but in Canada the options are limited - I found a couple sweet deals on the Cold Steel Viking, and JUST ordered it - The only thing that turned me off of the Chen were the rivets in the leather handle - the CS has a wooden handle with a tight leather wrap, and has the ridge of leather 2/3 up the grip - my thinking is the tight leather will help keep the wood in one piece. I hope the next one you get has no problems - please keep us posted on your results.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 6:49:35 GMT
Hollow pommel?!? Tease. Thats like buying a new car without tires. Oh, don't worry, the rims are there, just no tires. Yeah, that made the decision a lot easier. I should put up reviews soon... Hey, don't get me wrong. The Godfred I had was a really nice sword. I pulled it out of the box, and... wow. It was perfect, once I wiped the drool off it. It was well balanced, not chunky like some paul chen stuff, aesthetically pleasing... guh. The blade was great. Very flexible, but resisted a bend, didn't have the best edge on it, but tough as they come. The look was great, too. Suede covered wooden sheath with bronze furniture, blued damascus steel pommel and guard, interwoven leather handle... honestly I think it has a better look than most swords around. My only 2 problems were the handle and the pommel and guard. Okay, so the pommel and guard LOOKED fantastic and actually were made out of blued patterned steel, but the problem was that they were made out of blued patterned pot metal. Or something similarily heavy. A friend was handling it, tipped it up side down, it slipped out and it hit the pavement. I actually had to pick tiny pieces of gravel out of the pommel. My problem with the handle was that it was epoxied on. Had it not been, I could have had it repaired. And, so everyone knows, the broken pommel was probably a freak accident. There was a flaw in the steel halfway down the rat tail portion of the tang. P.S. "Warriors and Wonders" in B.C. sells them the cheapest in all the Canadian sites I've looked at. They are the ones handling my return, too. Jay seems really nice.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 14:14:52 GMT
Hollow pommel?!? Tease. Thats like buying a new car without tires. Oh, don't worry, the rims are there, just no tires. Yeah, that made the decision a lot easier. I should put up reviews soon... Hey, don't get me wrong. The Godfred I had was a really nice sword. I pulled it out of the box, and... wow. It was perfect, once I wiped the drool off it. It was well balanced, not chunky like some paul chen stuff, aesthetically pleasing... guh. The blade was great. Very flexible, but resisted a bend, didn't have the best edge on it, but tough as they come. The look was great, too. Suede covered wooden sheath with bronze furniture, blued damascus steel pommel and guard, interwoven leather handle... honestly I think it has a better look than most swords around. My only 2 problems were the handle and the pommel and guard. Okay, so the pommel and guard LOOKED fantastic and actually were made out of blued patterned steel, but the problem was that they were made out of blued patterned pot metal. Or something similarily heavy. A friend was handling it, tipped it up side down, it slipped out and it hit the pavement. I actually had to pick tiny pieces of gravel out of the pommel. My problem with the handle was that it was epoxied on. Had it not been, I could have had it repaired. And, so everyone knows, the broken pommel was probably a freak accident. There was a flaw in the steel halfway down the rat tail portion of the tang. P.S. "Warriors and Wonders" in B.C. sells them the cheapest in all the Canadian sites I've looked at. They are the ones handling my return, too. Jay seems really nice. Not trying to steer you to the Gen 2 Witham Viking. But is just a tiny bit longer handle and is full tang, peened over a solid pommel. They are in stock.
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Post by hotspur on May 3, 2007 18:37:16 GMT
Some Thoughts on the Godfred.
Paul Chen indicated to an initial reviewer that these were never meant for any serious cutting. This goes back to the introduction of these. I have broken both a Godfred blade and sheared the threaded extension of the tang. The problem with the threaded section is that the threaded rod is very small diameter and is quite soft. I sheared that by simply twisting the pommel, as if to unscrew.
The pommel and guard are not pot metal. They may seem soft but I can assure you that they are steel. In the process of fitting a replacement blade, I did quite a bit of filing. A magnet would clarify that for the curious. The now scarce replacement blades from initial production days do not have a threaded extension.
They are somewhat pretty swords and suitable for very light cutting only. I had broken my blade doing some moderate to heavy thumping on the edge and the blade ripped literally in half. The saga is well documented on SFI and there are pictures of the tang, blade interior, etc. Simply search titles for Godfred.
If I am not mistaken, the blades are still only being sharpened about eight inches back from the tip. My rebladed hilt continues to perform well for light cutting. The broken blade had been very overheated and cooked during its heat treatment. This may still be an issue but both CAS and Hanwei (Paul Himself) were appreciative of the photos and analysis.
Aaron Justice did a very nice polish and etch on one and it looked much more pleasing. These blades are really only an anachronism of what pattern welded swords looked like but can still be an attractive package for "more show than go"
The grip size of historical swords does vary and there have been some healthy debates about how to grip these. I wear a size 12-13 glove (inches around first knuckles) and have had no issues with shorter grips when keeing things in context about how best to wield it. Once you realize a hammer grip is not the only way to swing it, things fall into place. It is not a matter of ancient hands being smaller. The pommel only gets in the way if you let it. Think more in terms of a handshake or painting with a broad paint brush.
The Kris Cutlery Viking has been popular with some and fits in the lower price brackets as well. KC has always had a reputation for making tough stuff sharp and there may be other swords from them that would appeal.
My first real sword was a tourista jian. The blade was wonderful but the other components junk. That was rehilted as well.A friend abscounded with it on the excuse he was going to polish and do some nice fittings. He passed on, some ten years later and who knows whatever happened to it?
I paid $245usd for my Godfred in 2001. Retail then was about $350. Tuscany Trading went out of business soon after my purchase but had been a good retailer in the years preceding that. I had scooped up a bare Godfred blade for roughly $130. I actually only finished putting all back together last year, with some modifications to the shoulders and pommel. In the end, minus my labor, I ended up paying about regular retail. One of these days, I am going to regrip the pointy half of the broken blade and mount it as a lance.
I have a problem with the term beater in general but most especially when applied to what is a nice looking and light duty sword. I do advise prospective Godfred customers to read all the old threads. I still like this sword. It does handle very well and mine hangs right next to an 18th century spadroon.
Cheers and good luck with the replacement choice.
Hotspur; Clyde's Viking is not too shabby looking
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 20:57:46 GMT
hello, i bought the hanwei godfred damascuss sword and sold it pretty much as soon as i got it, it was a nice looking sword but i knew right away it wasn't going to be a serious cutter, paid $200us for it, sold it for $200us, got to love ebay,
i can't wait for Sandmans upcoming review of the cold steel viking, i've been curious about this sword for some time now....
i'm saving up for a viking myself, the only three i'm willing to choose from are the Gen.2 River Witham sword, Kris Cutlery Viking or Albion Squire Line Viking, Gen.2 and KC are $300 and Albion is $90 xtra,
there seems to be alot of problems with hanweis stuff judging by the different posts on this website,
cheers, chris
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 22:27:53 GMT
Good luck - Suddenly, all cold steel vikings in north america are sold out I may have to wait until june , so instead i thought about the windlass sticklestad, and they're out of stock all over as well - maybe it's worth the duty for that witham from G2 after all
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Post by rammstein on May 3, 2007 22:36:01 GMT
Oh no sandman! You were so looking foreward to it, too Ah well, the wait really does make it worth it, although you won't be enjoying it in the mean times and will probably ask yourself over and over again "Why me!!?? Whyyyyy meeeeee? " I know from experience
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 22:49:53 GMT
Thanks Hotspur. I only wish I knew that before getting it. I didn't mean to imply that the pommel and guard were anything other than metal, though. And fyi, I think there is a difference between older and newer Godfreds. I've heard stories of the older blades breaking. The difference is that with the new one, the fuller extends into the handle, on the old one's fuller starts a couple inches above the handle.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 22:52:22 GMT
LOL Clyde. Yeah, I might have to look into that. The Irish hand-and-a-half looks really tempting too...
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 23:05:13 GMT
Pheww! Found two left at Warriors and Wonders ;D ;D ;D - they're also close, so shipping wasn't bad, if only it wasn't for that damn sales tax of 14%...... I should have it by monday or tuesday next week, right when I start school - maybe i'll do my review on campus! (yeah right!)
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Post by hotspur on May 3, 2007 23:20:07 GMT
"I've heard stories of the older blades breaking. The difference is that with the new one, the fuller extends into the handle, on the old one's fuller starts a couple inches above the handle."
The unstopped fuller was from the second batch on. I've honestly only read of one other old one breaking and that was at the juncture of the stub tang and sub tang. One newer report was a pommel that was slightly crooked. There is a stub tang of the blade metal itself, a nicley welded piece of steel for the main section of the tang and then the threaded section welded onto that. It is such a small diameter that the heat from welding softens the threaded section.
I'll post back with a couple of image links.
Cheers
Hotspur; others that have been inside find the same things
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Post by hotspur on May 3, 2007 23:39:02 GMT
Here is a thread I posted some years ago with a composite of blade shots and a picture of the tang construction on these. forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=11314Even the newer blades on these are pretty soft. One account was dinging the edge when it accidently banged a chest of drawers. Another note about flexing blades to "test" them. It will tell you very little, unless you go too far and it stays bent. I know some will dissagree but stress testing and quality control is best done by the source. Cheers Hotspur; What some do is simply imprudent for all to imitate
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 6:41:43 GMT
Glad I could help, Sandman. Wow Hotspur, you sure know a lot about the Godfred. You know anything about the Qi Jian?
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 20:45:08 GMT
hotspur, thanx for the link, i am no xpert when it comes to making swords, but that part where they weld the rod to the tang just looks like an invitation to disaster, there should not be any welding done at all, the sword should be one piece,
i don't think i will buy any Hanwei products anytime soon, i wasn't a big fan of theirs before, but after reading your post and looking at those photos, i will look towards other manufacturers,
thanx, chris
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