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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2007 23:01:03 GMT
Does anyone know a good dvd that has sword exercises? I know there is one called Forza The Samurai Sword.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2007 5:41:53 GMT
Hey, and while we're here,, how about medieval styles?
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2007 6:28:35 GMT
Learning from DVD is not advised, better to seek the services of a trained sensei if you want to learn japanese or any type of sword martial art.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2007 11:35:51 GMT
I have some basic Sword and shield cuts posted on my webpage. mysite.verizon.net/tsafa1/pell/index.htmHere I have some rapier point control drills: mysite.verizon.net/tsafa1/g2blackprince/index.htmIf you are interested in learning to fight with weapons, one of the best and cheapest options I can offer you is to find a local SCA practice either in Rapier or Rattan. You can find a local practice at www.sca.orgThe SCA also has siege warfare, archery, knife and axe throwing, armor making, calligraphy, knitting, cooking and almost any activity related to the medieval and Renaissance period. The SCA is not limited in scope to Europe, so you will also find people who fight in the oriental styles. I have even seen some Affrican fighters. This is a non for profit organization. Practice is open to all, eve n non-members. The practices are either free or have a nominal fee of $5 to cover rent for space. Tournaments are often held. The entry fee is again a nominal $10. They also have camping events. When you go to practice you generally learn hands on from the more experienced fighters. So this is not the kind of place were you will drill for months before you can actually fight. As soon as you meet the safety requirements you are ready to fight and learn. If you want to see some examples, just go to youtube and search SCA for some videos. You should check it out, its fun, its cheap, you learn how to fight, and your not commiting yourself in anyway.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2007 21:57:44 GMT
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Post by rammstein on May 7, 2007 22:07:31 GMT
Beautiful swords, but the man is making some fundemental mistakes: The main one I noticed was in the second video, he often leaves his back wide ly exposed, staking his life that his first cut will be lethal.
For the most part though, very good guide!!!
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2007 0:02:03 GMT
Problem I have right off the top is that if you have two hands, it makes no sense not to use them both... so unless you have a two-hand sword, you better get a shield or some other weapon in the other hand. This is important because that other weapon or shield will determine how you use the sword. Only time sword-alone makes some sense is with a shortsword. Rapier is sometimes used single only, but the other hand was actively used to parry.
The figure-eights he was talking about is nonsense. When you make contact with the other persons shield or weapon, your motion is going to stop. From there you can move into another strike, and more after that in combinations, but it is not going to be fluid figure-eights. He also referred figure-eights as "Moulinet". I'm glad he mentioned it because I had I wanted to add it to my website but I had no idea how to spell it. Of course its a vague term that can be applied to many things, but I will have to do a demo of how I do it. It has a very specific function of getting around the shield on the other guys right side.It does have a twist to it, but its not a figure-eight.
The guy seems well intentioned and like a very nice guy, but I think his tactics is based on watching Hollywood.
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Post by rammstein on May 8, 2007 0:14:23 GMT
Tsafa, single sword is valid combat and the points he made about getting out of the way rather than parrying were very valid. Much of the guide is good, though (as you point out) some of it was nonesense.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2007 2:34:14 GMT
Yes, I agree about getting out of the way. I looked at three videos that he posted so I was probably talking about another one. I mentioned in another post somewhere that your best defense is to Avoid, second best is to Deflect and third is to Block.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2007 3:08:58 GMT
I thought the one you specifically linked to rammstein was really really bad, especially with his idea of moulinet. I also never lead with my left foot, i lead with my right which is opposite to my left hand which is my sword hand. It just feels so much more comfortable. Ultimately i guess you do it the way that feels most comfortable to you. I disagreed with most of what he said in the very first video. Props to him for trying to make it though.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2007 23:16:06 GMT
I thought the one you specifically linked to rammstein was really really bad, especially with his idea of moulinet. I also never lead with my left foot, i lead with my right which is opposite to my left hand which is my sword hand. It just feels so much more comfortable. Ultimately i guess you do it the way that feels most comfortable to you. I disagreed with most of what he said in the very first video. Props to him for trying to make it though. Bloodwraith, I posted a video in the "importance of a pell" thread of my version of a Moulinet. Take a look at it, its reply #32 .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2007 22:44:11 GMT
The guy seems well intentioned and like a very nice guy, but I think his tactics is based on watching Hollywood. Nope. Filipino escrima, Japanese kenjutsu, WMA and of course a little SCA.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2007 12:03:25 GMT
I have been asking around the SCA about that whole figure-eight deal. It turns out there is some credibility to it after all. I have found out that when using heavy swords or other weapons with one hand, it may be wise to keep the weapon in a state of motion. I tested it out my my own bastard sword which I normally use with two hands. At times I have gotten hit in one arm and had to fight using only one hand. In such cases, the only way for me to swing it effectively from a static position is to really put my hip into it. I can get a good shot off, but follow up hits are difficult. It required me to reset. Using figure-eights and circles I can get shots off more easily. The problem with figure-eights and circles is that they are very predictable and timeable. It also uses up more energy as you maintain constant motion.
I tracked down one of the fighters that uses this method exclusively in his fighting style and is considered very good over all. He felt that his method is more historical at the time of the crusades when most sword were geared toward fighting from horseback. The were long and had there point of balance well down the blade. If you were to use such a sword on ground with a shield, you may find it very hard to wield with one hand from a static position.
Most SCA fighter use the opposite method of this. The use light swords or swords with a point of balance close to the hilt that they can fire from a static defensive position with no warning. They do not expend extra energy making unnecessary circles.
Since the last time I posted in this thread, I have have the experience of fighting against two of the best guys in each style. Both kicked my $emprini, but I was able to score more hits on the guy using the circles and figure eights. I was able to time the openings better as he moved around. The other guy using the static defense, was basically turtled up, keeping his shield close to his body covering the left side of head, body and leg. The sword was held defensively close to the right side of his head. He blocked all my attacks, and delivered few but accurate blows when I opened up that almost all landed. I could not get anything in except for one face-thrust.
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Post by rammstein on Jun 14, 2007 14:15:30 GMT
Well it's a good thing I didn't link to it then
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Post by ShooterMike on Jun 14, 2007 16:24:59 GMT
To answer Sandman's question, I just bought the DVD The Longsword of Johannes Liechtenauer, Part I from Chivalry Bookshelf and think pretty highly of it. It's sold as a companion to Christian Tobler's book Fighting with the German Longsword
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2007 20:00:26 GMT
I have been asking around the SCA about that whole figure-eight deal. Is the SCA your primary swordplay background, Tsafa?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2007 22:45:07 GMT
I do livesteel and have done classical saber and non-organized swordplay with pvc-swords. I am doing live steel less and less because I don't like the safety restrictions and low calibrations. I do like that I can practice some some hits and grappling moves that are not permitted in the SCA, so I still go to occasional practice.
Within the SCA I also do rapier, which uses steel flexi-blades and the calibration is very light. The whole body is a target area, thrusts and slices are permitted but no hacks.
Of course I also do armored combat with rattan at high power calibration. Interestingly, I have done SCA rattan for the least amount of time, only a year. I have been most impressed with it. First, by the high skill level that you will naturally find in a large organization. The pool of people is larger, so you learn more as you encounter more people. Second, by how some relatively simple strikes can be very difficult to execute and very effective once you move move up to a level where you are striking at full speed and power. The dimensions of fighting really change once you get into armor and strike with intent to kill. The only thing that keeps people alive is their armor in the SCA.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2007 18:13:51 GMT
The figure-eight move comes from escrima, mostly. That's where I was first exposed to it, although WMA calls it a "moulinet" or somesuch. It's a good way to loosen up and trust your control of the weapon, but the danger is that you can lose edge-orientation, which is very important if you're actually using a sword for a real fight.
Here's a good escrima clip:
I know that the SCA started using rattan around the time of the Vietnam war. Pretty sure vets were coming back with some exposure to escrima from R&R in the Philippines. I know when I was there in the 80's, we were bringing back rattan chairs by the shipload. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was an early escrima connection in SCA history. Can anyone here confirm this?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2007 19:20:09 GMT
I would love to see some early 70's SCA fighting video from the best fighters of the time and see how it compares to todays standards. Today the methods are pretty much unquestionably effective and efficient. People are trained to strike in a manor that least stresses the shoulder, elbow wrist and produces great striking force. I doubt this was always the case. There must have been a lot of experimenting going on in the early years and cross-referencing with many oriental fighting styles. I would be interested to see how things changed over time. I have access to a lot of people I can ask who were around from the beginning. I will try to remember to ask them.
I saw the vid you linked Kortoso. Very interesting. Same concept of "whipping" is used in SCA training. You are throwing the blade at the other person. This is one of the reason people have said, and I agree, cutting practice is contrary to fighting practice. It is also interesting that they use the sticks to simulate machetes.
It was interesting to watch him smash the coconut. The shot he used is similar to my moulenett shot. Only difference is I raise my elbow nearly over my head and bring it down for more power as I flip the wrist and strike with the back of the sword. This shot gives me a unique angle against a shieldman were the blade come down vertically along his shieldline. It is also great against two-swordmen who hold both blades vertical.
A few guys who fight in the form of two-sword told me they use Filipino stick fighting as their foundation. They studied Filipino fighting first and then adapted it to SCA. The cool thing about the SCA is that it covers a huge time period from at ancient world to the 16 th century and spans the world in that range. So you have so many different styles mixed in and most people use whatever works regardless of where it originated from. It is for this reason I think in the SCA, you will find some of the best fighters that have ever lived.
btw, the vid was also a good reminder for me. I think I have been getting lax in my "whipping" over the last month. I have been developing some other new skills and I think some of my old ones have gotten rusty. I will have to concentrate on whipping at my next practice while working in the new stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2007 6:38:07 GMT
Shootermike, thanks for the tip, I just bought Tobler's book, and have gone through it for the first time, focusing on the first chapter, then in brief in the rest; for the time being. The pics in the book are pretty good, so I think the video would be good too... Now how long of an extension cord willl I need to get the TV in to the back yard?
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