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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 22:53:12 GMT
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Don't worry, I went and looked at it, but didn't touch. I've still gotta figure out how I want to finish it off. I have some pillow stuffing that I can use for the arm pad on the back, but I really don't have a fabric store that is close by. I do have some old sheets that I was thinking about using, I'd just double them up and fold in the edges. I also though about covering the entire back with the sheet, and then I thought why just cover the back!?!? I just went looking for the sheet, to see what kind of fabric it was, but apparently I've set it aside somewhere. I'll try to find it, but do you think that I could get away with using that for the cover? Good for you! It is so tempting though. I released one too early once.. starting hearing these wierd creaking noises..... the rest is just too emotional for me to go on......... Greg, as Taran stated you can pretty much use anything. I have always used canvas, and I glue it to the shield using titebond. It really makes the canvas become one with the shield. Plus I just like the texture of canvas. If I am going to edge the shield I don't wrap it around, but if I am not using edging I just wrap it around and leave about an inch of material on the back of the shield. Covering the back is optional, but I guess it would add some strength. Keep up the good work! -gaffer
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2010 0:33:49 GMT
Then again, I do believe you had a recommendation for me, so maybe you should just ignore the above and it'll just be there for others... If you've got something to contribute or some constructive critisism, I have no problem with you. I just felt that since you haven't actually made a shield, that you might not have the grounds to talk down to someone. Not that we here at SBG ever talk down to anyone! Friendliest sword forum on the internet, right! ;D I think I might go ahead with the sheet then. I'm not to concerned about having something being bashed against it, and this is my first shield. I REALLY wish I had some sort of fabric store closer then 30 mins away. Maybe there is one tucked in the back corner of some place that I just don't know about. Turns out that it started raining a few hours ago. The shield got wet, but I covered it as soon as I saw the rain. It's been 24 hours, so hopefully the glue has set enough. I think the worst thing that could happen is that the wood takes some of the water and helps it bend. Now off to find that sheet! Oh, and Gaffer, I've got no problem if this turns in to a thread on shield making. If anyone can gain some knowledge, by all means, post it!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2010 0:41:00 GMT
I have built and used 2 shields, covering and edging and mainly using a third that I purchased. I have not Bent a shield. Only geographical location prevents me from using one of the shields I made and the third was built with the grain going the wrong way so the top 8 inches were broken off. Just so you can have your facts straight.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2010 5:55:57 GMT
Quite.
I value your input when it comes to coverings and whatnot. I just didn't think you should have chimed in with the possibility of bending a solid 5/8" plywood when you, in fact, had not.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2010 6:32:50 GMT
Best covering for any shield is rawhide, big piece or even strips, soak it till its bendable and glue it down for starters and nail the edges for extra support, its really the rawhide doing the work the wooden shield is mostly the frame for it although the wood plays its part, failing rawhide thick leather in three layers if you can manage or failing those canvas but I would hasten to say in 5 - 6 layers on the face, this is for a truely functional shield even short bodkin arrows will stick ......... if your using straight rawhide a shield thickness of 8-10 mm glued or single board should do, if its leather or canvas maybe go to 12mm thick wood. If you can just get rawhide strips like dog chews just soak them until they unravel then nail it around the edge thats pretty good for edge catches. This is one of the best principles for straight shields where alot of biting occurs more then deflection but holds completely true for bent shields
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2010 6:48:37 GMT
Additionally a steel strip for the handle on round shields is good because its re-usable and wont break under a strike thus keeping the shield structure together for longer and if you have ever seen those outer face strips like on the sutton hoo shield (even though they were ceremonial gold) for those that used iron horizontal either side of the boss the idea was in downward, upward or flipped around once one side succumbed it wasnt just to hold the planks together but to deflect glancing blows along with the boss, maintain frame integrity and to stop a massive chop passing through the shield material into the hand or arm.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2010 22:13:00 GMT
HA HA! Well, it's almost, pretty much done. I'll let the pictures do most of the talking. This is just version 1. I learned a lot, and v.2 will not only look better, but function better too. I found a piece of polyester for the arm padding and filled it with the same stuff you find in pillows. The nickle furniture nails look awesome, but came through the shield just a hair. I also forgot to put a back board in while I was drilling, so the front holes are splintered some. I'll probably cover it later, but this is enough for now. Also, I'm not to thrilled with the width of the forearm strap, I'll make the next one a bit more narrow. I also messed up on the placement of the grip (you can see the spare hole.) If I would have left it, I would have been grabbing onto the buckle. I also plan on leaving the buckle out of v.2. OH! And the biggest mistake that I made was using lock nuts. It made sense in my head, having a nut that wouldn't come out on it's own, but the problem with that is that I had nothing to hold it down with on the other side (the bolts were the rivet head looking things.) But with the clever use of a wrench and a lot of cussing, I managed. Speaking of cussing, tho's cutting discs for the dremmel are a pain. I went through 6 of them while cutting off the remainder of the bolts. It was user error, but I still cussed. Well, here are the pics! The curve held better then I thought it would: The edges were fine as far as the glue was concerned. Now I know why Gaffer suggests leaving an extra inch or two of space between the shield and the edge of the plywood. I decided to add in a temporary length of para cord. For right now, this is mainly to tie to the scabbard. I'll later remove it and replace it with leather shoe lace both on the top of the shield and on the bottom. This design works wonders for transportation of the blade (assuming a curved shield) and for single blade display. I haven't found any historical references to it, and I'm sure I'm not the first to do this, but the idea did come from my own head and not any previous models. (If you can find any, I'd be thrilled to see them.) All in all, I love it. I'll probably move the straps (boss?) further down the shield so that the center of my forearm is the center of gravity. Right now my arm sits a bit high. I hope that this project will help others who want to make a shield for the first time. If you guys have any questions, don't hesitate. And yes Gaffer, you are right. There is nothing like holding a sword in one hand and a shield in the other. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2010 23:37:11 GMT
Looks good. I look forward to seeing the final product with your device on it.
Just one thing, though, pillow stuffing compacts in a hurry. It won't cushion your arm for very long. Down would be better, if you can get it, closed cell foam even more so. A few layers of thin, soft leather would also work well. Sheepskin is the best in my experience, but closed cell foam is the most common padding I've seen.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2010 7:46:55 GMT
Thanks Taran!
Yeah, I swore I had some foam laying around and after 30 mins of going through all my junk, I never was able to find it. I will probably leave this shield as is and name it my "beater" shield, something I don't have to worry about how pretty it looks. Tomorrow I'll start my second shield which I'll go ahead and plan on finishing it up properly.
I was half tempted to stick to traditional methods for making my next shield, but then scrapped the idea after deciding that they probably didn't have plywood back in the day. Perhaps later in the future, after I've made a couple for my friends, I'll try to make a medieval tech shield, but for now I'll stick with modern conveniences.
Adding to the list of things that I'll do differently: -Treating the whole shield with an outdoor, wood protecting stain. I was in such a rush with this one, I totally looked over that. -More sustainable padding -A thinner belt for the grip (although I might trim this one down) -No lock nuts! -Better placement of the straps -Recessed holes for the bolts in the front, that way I can cover it with canvas and have a smooth surface for the art. After I recess the head of the bolt, I'll fill it in with Titebond which will hopefully keep the stability of the shield intact. -Might think about using a smaller nail then the furniture nails to hold the padding on - And better spacing with the padding nails.
My next shield should look 10x better then this one. I was just hastened with giddy-ness and overlooked a couple key factors.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2010 11:19:56 GMT
Hey looking alright, I tend to like my heaters chin to knee sized but looks nice,
Also if your gonna re-stuff just get rags and stuff and roll them into little vertical rolls and stuff them in nice and compact, should make a comfortable pad and only move side to side a bit under the covering
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2010 14:02:48 GMT
HA HA! The curve held better then I thought it would: And yes Gaffer, you are right. There is nothing like holding a sword in one hand and a shield in the other. ;D Greg, Good Job.. and I think you learn so much the first time you try something, in fact sometimes it is where I have learned the most. I bet your second will go much smoother. It's a lot of fun the first time you un-strap it from the press and it keeps it's shape. The curve feels pretty strong doesn't it? You know.... holding a shield and sword just feels so natural and powerful! -gaffer
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2010 14:55:46 GMT
Well done Greg!
Have to admit that I've learned a thing or two reading this thread. And enjoyed reading it. You look pretty damn happy to have arrived to a nearly finished point.
Personally, I would love to see you finish it up with your device proudly displayed. After all, it may not be perfect, but it is your FIRST and should have all due honor that position accords.
Maybe I missed it in the posts, but how thick is it?
+1 for seeing it through. Many start a project but run into a snag and never finish.
Troy/Shoboshi
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2010 17:57:42 GMT
Shoboshi: It's 1/2" thick and yeah, I suppose I do need to see it through with a device. That way I can also practice one of tho's too.
Gaffer: The whole shield feels like one piece of wood. You are right, the wood will probably break before the glue does.
BrissyBeater: Chin to knee!?!?! I'm guessing that we don't keep the same 1:3 ratio while doing the measurements for the shield, aye? Ohhh, you mean the upside-down tear drop looking thing right? I'm thinking about building one eventually
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2010 19:25:44 GMT
BrissyBeater: Chin to knee!?!?! I'm guessing that we don't keep the same 1:3 ratio while doing the measurements for the shield, aye? Ohhh, you mean the upside-down tear drop looking thing right? I'm thinking about building one eventually Like a kite shield When you absolutely positively have to get every part of your body behind a shield!!! -gaffer
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2010 22:28:01 GMT
When you absolutely positively have to get every part of your body behind a shield!!! -gaffer In case it starts raining and you don't want to get your armor wet... right? Gonna go on a mission this weekend and find some canvas. I'd like to do a leather wrap, but I'm strapped for cash at the moment and don't want to buy a half a cow to wrap a shield. But I could afford some canvas and hopefully get it covered, if not painted this weekend.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2010 23:19:44 GMT
In case it starts raining and you don't want to get your armor wet... right? Well.. I was actually thinking raining arrows, and I didn't want to get my armour bloody :>) Most frabic shops sell it. You don't need the heavy stuff like umbrella or tent canvas (though I guess it would work). It is a bit pricey. Some places call what I use duck canvas (though it is made just a little different it would work also). Get 100% cotton. -gaffer
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2010 4:21:10 GMT
Duck cloth is good and tough. Actually, polyesters work well, too. Not exactly period, and don't look all that great, but they hold up better than most under an SCA beating. And they're cheap. You know, that pillow case...
Chin to knee isn't THAT tall. Of course, a heater shield that tall is going to be pretty big because of its horizontal dimension. My coffin shield is 42" tall by 24" wide (at its widest point). Around here, that used to be considered a humongous shield. Now everyone's carrying heaters almost as tall.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2010 10:56:09 GMT
Sorry I meant Chin to Ankle but yeah big ass kite shield. Yeah not much point getting thick canvas but doint multiple layers of light cheap canvas, do one, let it dry then do another over it, again the glue will do blocking work as well as the canvas, like a composite bow the shield uses the amalgamation of its parts to a combined affect
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