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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2010 19:11:51 GMT
(Edit: Complete shield on page 2) Most of you might have thought, "Why didn't he name it 'My first shield!' as the topic." Well, you'll see. I started off by referencing Gaffer's shield making site heavily: www.yeoldegaffers.com/project_shield.aspI thought about doing something different then the standard heater, but decided to duplicate his plans instead. The day was warm, there was a slight breeze and all was going well. I deviated slightly with his method of drawing in the curve. His method called for a board or other scrap piece of wood. I opted for some string, as I didn't have any wood to spare, save for going into the forest and making spare wood. The string was nice as I was able to tie knots throughout it's length in order to adjust the distance between the nail and the pencil. Next I prepped the "shield press" so that I wouldn't be floundering around after I applied the glue. If you'll take note of the knots tied in the straps to keep the clamp from falling off the whole thing. I was rather proud of myself for thinking of that on the fly. And then I applied spread the glue and did the same to the other piece of wood. I'm afraid I might not have applied enough. I still have more then half a bottle left over, so if for some reason the thing comes apart, I'll simply sand her down and try again. On a side note, props to the Titebond II in the cleanup department. Just a little warm water and the brush is like new again. I was afraid I would have to buy a new brush each time I had tried. There's a cookie for ya if you can guess what is wrong with this next picture: Ok, so I lied about the cookie. After I had everything clamped down, I discovered that the edge of my shield was not running parallel with the tank. I doubt I'll notice it after it's trimmed down, but if anyone wants to do something similar, this is something to watch out for. Next I had discovered that some of the edges are separating. I had tried and tried to think of a way to get 2x4's under the straps, but as a solo operation, I was lucky to have gotten this far, let alone try to add in some 2x4's. However, in the future, if I have to redo this, I may employ duct tape to secure some 2x4's to the straps prior to putting the shield in. It's either that, or suspend the 2x4's with some string. If the shield retains it's bend, I may just go back and fill in the separations with some more wood glue and clamp it shut. Or I could secure it with a nut and bolt. Or I could just leave in the separation to add in a little bit of "flare" around the edges, might look pretty cool. I won't know for another 48 hours how this will turn out. So, sorry to add some more suspense to this forum, but as soon as I unstrap it, I'll take some pictures and post them here.
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Post by stromloswordsusa on Apr 13, 2010 20:47:22 GMT
Good luck with it Greg...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2010 21:25:50 GMT
I'm curious why you didn't just start with some 5/8" thick or thicker plywood. It's easier that way. The gluing is already done. And all you need to do then is put the predominate direction of the grain vertical. Bend, Strap, Edge, Decorate. Use.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2010 22:16:11 GMT
Greg,
I really doubt the little bit of angle you have on the tank will show.
You are pretty close. You almost have to use the wood slats and the more tie downs the better. You have plenty of time to work with before the glue dries, so you can tighten the straps, but not all the way yet. Then you can slide in slats and then tighten the clamps all the way down. The slats assist in clamping the plywood pieces together evenly and on the edges. You totally have the right idea though. At least plywood is pretty cheap :>)
Taran: Just bend a piece of 5/8" plywood? Do you have a plywood shield you have completed by just bending it?
You have to start with 2 thinner pieces, glue, then bend for two reasons. You can actually bend 1/4" plywood, though I bet greg found out it takes a pretty good pull to do so. And anytime you glue two pieces of wood together in a curve, they will retain the curve after the glue has dried. This is how they make curved bows, shields, curved beams.. and many other wood items. Now a few wood species (ash, oak) can be steamed and bent, and they will retain their shape, but I doubt that would work on plywood :>)
-gaffer
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2010 22:41:20 GMT
Yeah, after thinking back to what you said about the shield popping back out a little after you take the tie downs off, I looked at the tank and thought that it might not be enough of a bend. Luckily I did have a whole spare sheet of this stuff, so if this doesn't give me enough of a bend, I'll try the keg I have laying around. But if I use the keg, I'm gonna have to figure out some way to keep the ridges on the side of the keg from biting into the shield.
Perhaps I could take a spare piece of wood and lay it down between the keg and the shield-to-be.
At the very least, I'll have a shield shaped object once this current one dries. It might retain a slight curve, which will still be nice. Oh, and I only have the 2 tie downs, so maybe working something up with the 2x4's is my only option.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2010 23:02:45 GMT
Very cool. I have a rather large rectangular road sign I was going to curve and make into a shield ( no, I didn't steal it !, LOL ) I really like the idea of the curved wood one but didn't know how to go about it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 2:32:46 GMT
A road sign isnt a bad idea, I was going to use one of those large diameter circular ones in a viking shield, was going to laminate two pieces of thin plywood either side then a rawhide covering if I can source a big piece or maybe just leather facing with rawhide rim, big of a secret weapon with the steel plate inside . although I will have to give a sign a hand weigh to see if its gonna make the shield to heavy or not
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 3:54:14 GMT
Taran: Just bend a piece of 5/8" plywood? Do you have a plywood shield you have completed by just bending it? You, um, soak it. With water. For about an hour, maybe less depending on local humidity... You never have to bend wood before? Never did any basket-weaving or leather shaping? It all works the same way...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 8:19:57 GMT
Taran, I think Gaffer was asking if you have ever successfully accomplished this with plywood. I don't think he was "stepping up" to you or challenging the possibility, but was simply inquiring if this has worked for someone.
It would be a heck of a lot easier to just go buy some 5/8th plywood, fill up a trash can, and let 'er soak, instead of messing with the glue and if that does, in fact, work, then I'm sure Gaffer (and myself) would love to hear it.
Of course a person could buy sheets of ash or oak and soak them for a bit to form a bend, but we are trying to accomplish similar results with way less cost. Hence the plywood.
And further more, I really don't appreciate the condescending tone of your last post. I realize it was later in the evening, and you probably didn't mean it to sound like it did, but I do not see anything in Gaffer's post to merit such a reply.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 15:25:35 GMT
Taran: Just bend a piece of 5/8" plywood? Do you have a plywood shield you have completed by just bending it? You, um, soak it. With water. For about an hour, maybe less depending on local humidity... You never have to bend wood before? Never did any basket-weaving or leather shaping? It all works the same way... Taran, Sorry if I sounded condescending that was not my point. I was more amazed, and I don't think this method is possible. I have bent wood, leather, etc. by soaking but my plywood experiment didn't work out at all. Doesn't mean that someone smarter than me (most folks) might have figured out a way to use this method, if so I have never seen it documented. When I made my first curved shield I attempted exactly what you suggested, (though I probably knew better), and it didn't turn out very good. I soaked the plywood and then attempted to bend it. Holy cow, that took everything I had and several large tie down straps. What I ended up with was a piece of warped plywood. And in fact it hardly had any bend at all. I can't even imagine trying bend a piece of 5/8" plywood. (and yes I know plywood will bend easier in one direction). After a couple of days the plywood returned to its more normal flat form, though still a bit warped and unusable for most wood projects. I took a target, taped it to the plywood and put about a hundred rounds through it :>) I then decided to search the web and find out how other folks had produced a curved shield. Ok, the ole "glue two (or more) pieces of wood together" trick that I actually had already used on other wood projects over the years. I didn't invent the method that greg is attempting, as it is pretty much the de-facto method use by our community to produce curved shields. My web page project just show what worked for me. It works, produces consistent results, and creates a permanent curve. Hey, it was a good idea, we both thought of it, it just didn't work out for me. -gaffer
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 17:11:45 GMT
And further more, I really don't appreciate the condescending tone of your last post. I realize it was later in the evening, and you probably didn't mean it to sound like it did, but I do not see anything in Gaffer's post to merit such a reply. The way it came across to me, I hard a REAL hard time not capslocking a "Duh!" in there. That was me Trying to be nice about it. Yes it works. No, I have not Personally dsone it with anything as large as a shield. My plywood shield is in Alaska and was made in November. Kind of hard to soak and bend anything when it's below freezing. I have, however, seen it done and seen several shields that were done in exactly that way. I have Also soaked and bent smaller piece of plywood and pressboard for Boy Scout projects when I was younger. The only thing it does Not work with is particle board and you don't want to use that anyway because it has no surface strength worth speaking of and weighs far more than necessary. Also, pressboard doesn't last very long after having been bent that way.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 17:36:50 GMT
I would love it if you'd shut the hell up, Taran.
Any dolt knows that wood can be bent, after soaking it. But until you have personally bent plywood, thick enough and large enough, to be a shield I think you might wanna step down off your platform and discuss your opinions on the level.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 18:45:17 GMT
Even though I'm not a mod, I have a sense this is going into unpleasant territory and peoples posts could be misconstrued or interpreted as hostile. Please, remember that one of our forum rules is civility and pleasantry to all parties involved. Please, remember that or take it to PMs.
Now, I have a question for anybody who's actually done this about the double layer method. Does it actually produce any noticeable difference in strength of shield? The reason I ask is because I'm going to attempt a center grip shield this summer and I want to know if I can just skip up to a 5/8 board and save myself the gluing or whether it's worth the mess. Thoughts on that one?
BTW Greg, nice going for this project. I'd be much to nervous about moving into a curved shield first, so props for jumping in with both feet. Have a Karma.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 19:02:38 GMT
Now, I have a question for anybody who's actually done this about the double layer method. Does it actually produce any noticeable difference in strength of shield? The reason I ask is because I'm going to attempt a center grip shield this summer and I want to know if I can just skip up to a 5/8 board and save myself the gluing or whether it's worth the mess. Thoughts on that one? I think most the "strength" would be in that the curve shield would tend to deflect blows. But I would think a flat piece of 5/8"'s plywood would be just as strong as gluing smaller pieces together. The factory has just already glued them together for you. IMHO for a flat shield, I would just purchase the desired thickness of plywood.. -gaffer
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 19:11:09 GMT
Perfect! Thanks Gaff. Now, where'd I put my shield boss and marauding axe.....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 19:36:13 GMT
I thought about doing a straight shield first, but I just like the look of the curve so much. I'm contemplating taking the shield down now, but I'll probably way the full 48 hours.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 19:55:08 GMT
I thought about doing a straight shield first, but I just like the look of the curve so much. I'm contemplating taking the shield down now, but I'll probably way the full 48 hours. #$^%$ WAIT!!!!!! :>) -gaffer
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 21:04:19 GMT
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Don't worry, I went and looked at it, but didn't touch. I've still gotta figure out how I want to finish it off. I have some pillow stuffing that I can use for the arm pad on the back, but I really don't have a fabric store that is close by. I do have some old sheets that I was thinking about using, I'd just double them up and fold in the edges. I also though about covering the entire back with the sheet, and then I thought why just cover the back!?!?
I just went looking for the sheet, to see what kind of fabric it was, but apparently I've set it aside somewhere. I'll try to find it, but do you think that I could get away with using that for the cover?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 22:02:41 GMT
Sheepskin makes good padding, if you can find it cheap.
I've seen a lot of different cloths on shields. I have duck cloth on the face of mine. Just don't use upholstery glue to attach it. It'll tear too easily if you actually use the shield for anything. Use an awl to poke some holes and lace it to your shield. Of course, if you never plan to actually have your shield beat on or if you're not too worried about how it'll look afterward, the glue IS really easy. That's how I did mine. I won't do it again, but it is easy.
Then again, I do believe you had a recommendation for me, so maybe you should just ignore the above and it'll just be there for others...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 22:44:37 GMT
Perfect! Thanks Gaff. Now, where'd I put my shield boss and marauding axe..... You are welcome! It sounds like you might be looking at a viking shield maybe? Well either way here one that I made that is flat. I used what is called edge glued panels. You can get them at lowes in the shelving and "hobby wood" area. The are little pieces of pine glued together to make a large panel. I got a 24" x 48" panel which made two 24" shields. This gives the shield a look that it was made out of panels. (well, I guess it was :>). Now these are mostly for looks as they are only pine, and wouldn't be as strong as plywood. I have included a couple of shots of this type of shield. This was my FIRST flat SHIELD, so I hope Greg doesn't think I am hi-jacking :>) I only put one coat of latex paint on the front so you could see the wood grain through it. The edge is leather tacked on. This is the back of a shield two. I use just a standard wood stain to finish the backs. It it not finished yet, but it does show the woodgrain, and edged glued wood well. I also like the boss better. The first one looks too good (it is spun), as you can see the hammer marks on the second shield boss. Here is a close up of the handle and strap ring. I made the metal D-ring and connector out of nails. I just hit them till they squared up and then bent them to the current shape. I will be covering the edges with rawhide. -gaffer
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