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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2010 0:07:07 GMT
So not to long ago I found out that I would be acquiring a single handed sword. So, as a compliment to it, I was thinking about making a shield to go with it and I have a couple questions.
1) I have seen a few posts and youtube video's that denounced the "two ring" shield as being inferior to a single handle in the middle of the shield. I think I would prefer a two ring style as it seems like it would be less tiring on the off hand wrist, but as with most things I know little about, I was seeking the opinions from people who might know more about the subject.
2) A shield in modern times does little against firearms... unless you line it with kevlar. I have found some kevlar sheets after a quick search for about $30 a yard. Ideally I will be working the kevlar into the shield some how if for some reason I would ever need to have it bullet proof. That being said, I sill want to maintain the classic shield look, so I was thinking about sandwiching the kevlar between two pieces of wood and finishing it up like a classic shield. I would also appreciate any input on this idea as well.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2010 2:19:35 GMT
2 basic style of shield grip: Strapped (forearm strap and a grip) and Center-Grip Both have advantages and disadvantages, but you'll find most people use the Strapped style. It's easier to learn, easier to master, and easier on the arm. Center-Grip is a very active shield and requires you to Move it a lot to use it properly. It's very tiring, easy to screw up, hard to master. However, center-grip shields can do several things that strapped shields can't. Which you go with depends on how you want to use it and a Lot on what basic shield design you want to use. You'll see center-grip mostly on round shields which can take best advantage of the tricks a center-grip offers. You Can build one if you want. 5/8s Inch Plywood being the recommended Minimum thickness. You could also make one out of metal. Mine is .09 inch thickness 7075 T-6 Aluminum. Or you can buy a shield blank. I got mine from Windrose www.windrosearmoury.com/They are known to be among the more expensive shield blank sources, but their stuff is also quite good. Tsafa can recommend several other, MUCH cheaper places to get shield blanks that are comparable in quality. As far as stopping bullets... .09 inches of aluminum should do fine for 9mm. Specially at an oblique angle. Steel would be better (but heavier). Wood would be useless. If you Really still want the kevlar, paint your device on it and lace it around its edges to the front of your shield. But that's going to weigh a TON. Less than sandwiching it between sheets of plywood, but still a Lot.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2010 8:03:12 GMT
You can do both, center grip and strapped forearm. If the center grip isn't too fat, it won't get in the way when you strap your arm on the left side and hold a grip on the right side with your hand. I've done it, it works. Depending on the shield you might even be able to use the center grip and strap your forearm to the left side so you don't need a second grip on the right side. I don't know if there are historical shields that had this do-it-all method but it's certainly worth not having to build two shields. About kevlar: forget it, wooden shields are not made to be bulletproof. one single layer of kevlar wouldn't be enough anyway, you'd need several and like taran said, that's goona be WAY to heavy. Use aluminum if you want a moderately bullet-proof shield. No usable shield you can make will stop heavier bullets though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2010 8:59:42 GMT
Perhaps an aluminum/kevlar/wood mix. Aluminum would be closest to me, and the wood being what would face out. Still doing some research on the different types of kevlar and what will stop what and the prices for each. I suppose I could go for steel and just work out with only my left arm to make it Popeye like. As far as the style, I was thinking about what I can only descibe as a tower shield. It would stand 3.5 feet tall, 1.5 feet wide, so I'm assuming the strap and handle would be my only option as something that huge would be near impossible to handle with the center grip. And I know what some of you may be thinking. "Yeah, this guy is gonna get himself killed when a buglar comes in and his first reaction is to go for the shield." Well, they may be part right. But I also plan on mounting a pistol on the inside of the shield to keep up with modern times. Thanks a ton for the link Taran! I had no idea this site existed, but it has things I might need soon aside from shields!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2010 14:30:15 GMT
You should PM Tsafa if he doesn't respond to this thread soon. Like I said, he can recommend Several places to get cheaper stuff (some assembly may be required). The Roman shield was a center-grip tower. Just so you know. For bullet-proof, ignore the wood. Too much weight, Zero protection. And the best bullet-proof cloths are still the woven p-aramid ones. Stay away from polyethylene laminates. www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19912You know, the police do (did?) have a bullet-proof shield. I don't know if they got rid of them yet, but they were big, heavy, steel monsters. Plenty to stop pistols fire or small calibre rifles. Maybe you can find one of them surplus...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2010 16:29:20 GMT
Hi Greg. Taran gave you plenty of good advice on the pro's and con's of center grips vs forearm strapped shields. Be sure to read this old thread. /index.cgi?board=armour&action=display&thread=6530 There is a lot of good info in there. You can get an aluminum shield from By My Hand Design for about $60. I have two of them and have been using them for 3 years so far. www.bymyhanddesigns.com/You best call them. These guys are no internet webmaster. There web site stinks and often is out of order. (317) 931-0561 Gary you had a very interesting idea about lining a shield with Kevlar. You would need it cause I would not trust the shield to stop even a .22 LR. I shot through a steel barrel yesterday with .22 Mag, FMJ at about 25 feet out of a 5 inch gun-barrel. The steel drum was about 16 gage. I'll try 9mm next time, but I am sure it will go right through. I easily shoot through with .44, black powder. That has the equivalent energy of .38 S&W. It might stop Hollow Points which expand on impact. More tests are in order
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Post by ShooterMike on Apr 4, 2010 17:19:42 GMT
Any reasonable thickness of aluminum is not going to defeat common handgun rounds. Even steel in anything approaching useable weight is not going to work well. Looks at road signs. They are steel, 0.125" thick, and almost any handgun round will sail right through them. I've been thinking along these lines myself, and doing some testing. From what I've been able to glean, one way to go seems to be quarter-inch bullet resistant plexi-glass covered with quarter-inch plywood on the outside and some fabric or leather covering on the arm side. Hopefully, the results should weight about the same as 5/8" plywood. At least that's my ideas... May not work worth beans.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2010 0:23:49 GMT
I still think the best choice would be to find one of those police shields. Not the riot control ones, the breaching ones.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2010 0:52:56 GMT
Well just so everyone is not confused about why I want wood, even if it is a 1/4" plywood, is more or less for looks. I don't want to have a riot shield hanging on the wall with two swords crossed behind it, I'd like something that looks 'pretty'... although some could argue about the 'pretty-ness of a riot shield in front of two crossed swords... I hadn't thought about the bullet resistant plexi glass. Durring my initial searches I had found some bullet resistance "panels" that were going for around $300-$3,000 per "unit" and decided that wasn't the best choice... yet. I won't have a problem spending that kind of money once I start to get money again, especially if such a shield might save my life. I suppose if I win a lottery or something, I could always buy the breaching shield and put some wood on it: www.att-tactical.com/att_ballistics_shields.htmlUnder 13 lbs... I'm kinda suprised. But now that I think about it, these things would have to be semi mobile.
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Post by ShooterMike on Apr 5, 2010 0:59:49 GMT
I have a friend who used to work for a large car dealership that specialized in building and repariing armored cars. He said there were always a lot of "bullet-proof" windshields laying around the shop. He was going to give me several for balistic testing. But I didn't really want spiderwebbed glass left around. You might check around with the local folks who build armored cars? They might give you a piece of armored plexi-glass. A good thing about windshields is that they already have the curve built in for a heater shield. Then again, this just might be totally crazy?....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2010 16:51:43 GMT
Not crazy, I just live in an extremely rural area and I doubt that anyone around here would build armored cars. But it would be worth asking around to see. How would you cut bullet proof plexi? Same way you'd cut normal plexi?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2010 19:42:40 GMT
Not crazy, I just live in an extremely rural area and I doubt that anyone around here would build armored cars. But it would be worth asking around to see. How would you cut bullet proof plexi? Same way you'd cut normal plexi? I worked in a glass shop a million years ago and we used a product called Lexan. Which, in a certain thicknesses was bullet proof. I know you could hit as hard as you wish with a hammer and could not hurt it all (some scratches maybe). We used a jig saw to cut it, and we mostly dealt with 1/4" . The normal way of cutting plexi did not work on Lexan. (I will get to your PM later after work :>) -gaffer
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2010 4:33:45 GMT
Here's an idea:
1. Start by constructing a metal shield to your liking. 2. Cover the face with Kevlar. 3. Cover the Kevlar layer with leather or cloth. 4. Embellish to taste.
If I remember correctly, shields were often covered with leather or cloth before being painted; you can have a period-looking piece with some small arms protection built in.
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