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Post by shadowhowler on Mar 18, 2010 3:46:19 GMT
As RK said Cory, he was not speaking about you. You posted an honest review of what you receaved... and it had honest issue that needed to be addressed. As I said before, we NEED people to post these reviews of items that have issues so the buying public as a whole can be informed from as many unbiased viewpoints as possible. Also, posting the results of contact with the vendor... showing good or poor customer service, this is just as important as the quality of the blades themselves. RK and James were referring to MrFatBucket's comments regarding the SBG sword line as a whole... not your review.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2010 3:53:20 GMT
This review actually gave me more confidence in the quality of the service of the sbg store becauase I now know for sure that if there is an issue, it will be be taken care of. Thank you for your review Cory.
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Major, Cory J.~
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Mar 18, 2010 3:55:09 GMT
Cory, my comment was not directed at you at all. ohh..... my apologies! I had read that wrong (must be the beer from the St, Paddy's day celbrations). I will edit that then as it has no value to the conversation or the situation. Fixed! (does this mean I get review points? lol Just joking!)
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Mar 18, 2010 5:17:45 GMT
I happen to love when things are this clear. that sword was obviously not the right one, not your sword and it was showing all the necessary signs. it was not the one you were meant to own and the correct one is on it's way.
every seller that does not physically produce each item themselves is subject to problems and issues as well as quirks of fate beyond their control. to continue to feel secure in your purchase from that vendor, it depends on how often these issues occur and most importantly, how they deal with them. even after reading the details of your experience, I personally would not hesitate to deal with Paul or purchase through SBG.
I have read the accounts of many many happy and satisfied SBG customers, while greatly appreciating the honesty of the few who weren't so happy. I have yet to hear that Paul has left anyone hanging. since there are so many swords on the market today from so many dealers, I feel that the vendor's customer service should be viewed as at least 75% of the total purchasing experience.
on another note, I haven't adopted nor accepted the seemingly popular phrase "those issues are expected on sub $300. production sword" or "you can't expect too much for the price you paid for it" these seem to be mostly used for problems with fit, fittings and materials. I feel that the difference in price should have much more to do with the quality and craftsmanship of the blade alone. I know that some materials cost more and good labor isn't cheap but you should never have to expect things like broken or falsely advertised parts and materials. for whatever the price. if items like that are to be sold at all they should only be listed in the sale section under "damaged". in this case, you can expect to get what you paid for.
sorry for the rant, maybe for a different thread but I was thinking about it before I started this.
anyway, I know that you will love your sword and will feel it was overall a good experience in the end. sometimes it helps to have this happen to really know who to trust and buy from.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2010 10:27:49 GMT
James:
Trashing vendors? No, not the vendor, their product. Also saying trashing implies that there is no merit to what I'm saying.
So I'm lying? These swords represent the pinnacle of what's available at $330? All of the individual parts are on par with those of similarly priced and cheaper swords? That the price represents value for money and is an especially good deal? That the waiting time is justified for such a quality product?
Ronin Katana: The fact that many of these have been sold is worthless when addressing quality. An argument ad populum is a fallacy. Yes, everyone can be wrong. Your own swords are vastly superior, cheaper and much better made.
Lets stop acting like some great injustice has occurred with my criticisms. If anyone feels that what I'm saying is wrong then I would be glad to hear why.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2010 14:16:05 GMT
Major, glad to see that your issues got sorted out. That rattle in the vid... yowza. You're likely to find one or two lemons from most vendors at this price range. The true test of a vendors quality isn't whether or not they never make mistakes, it's how willing they are to correct their mistakes, and I think this one passes. By the way, your wife is kewt!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2010 21:19:24 GMT
Major, glad to see that your issues got sorted out. That rattle in the vid... yowza. You're likely to find one or two lemons from most vendors at this price range. The true test of a vendors quality isn't whether or not they never make mistakes, it's how willing they are to correct their mistakes, and I think this one passes. I think this is the primary reason we bought our first sword from Paul We've also purchased from Marc at Wiwingti now as well with good results. Could get addictive...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 1:45:52 GMT
James: Trashing vendors? No, not the vendor, their product. Also saying trashing implies that there is no merit to what I'm saying. What's the difference... A vendors job is to "vend", when you label the products being vended to be "crap" then there is an implication there. There is merit to what you are saying, but you are accusing the whole line of swords to be "crap" based on a single review. Could you imagine if every time a sword had a defect/s we immediately labeled them as "crap"...? Companies like Cheness & Musashi would not exist if people were so quick to judge. Lying? No... Jumping the gun? Yes Also, no one ever said or implied that what you were saying was untrue, just unnecessary. These swords represent the pinnacle of what's available at $330? All of the individual parts are on par with those of similarly priced and cheaper swords? That the price represents value for money and is an especially good deal? That the waiting time is justified for such a quality product? The same argument we hear all the time... Please direct me to where these swords are advertised as being "the pinnacle of what's available at $330"Paul himself has stated - "Are these swords the be all and end all? Well, there will always be a market for much more expensive custom made swords, and I am not pretending that these swords are perfect. But for the money, I seriously doubt that you will find a better dealGiven the amount of options that the customer can choose from i think this is a pretty accurate assessment. You can buy an $80 Musashi & send it off to be customized (ito, saya, fittings, ect.) and you will end up paying more than $330 easily (not to mention shipping). ^This range of semi-custom options is also the reason the swords took so long from time of purchase to time of delivery. They are mounted "per order". You said it yourself: " on par with those of similarly priced and cheaper swords". I love it when people are outraged that the $300 sword has the same pieces as swords in the same price range. What should it have, furniture from a $400,$500,$600 sword? You'd probably find something to complain about then too, "how dare this $300 sword have $500 sword fittings, this is crap!" Lets stop acting like some great injustice has occurred with my criticisms. If anyone feels that what I'm saying is wrong then I would be glad to hear why. Again, if this was a continuing problem then i would agree with you 100%, but certain people seem to be getting a bug up their butt when it comes to anything in the sub $300 range, and on a forum that is targeted at the sub $300 mark that becomes a problem. Criticism is fine, that's what helps us learn & grow, but pick your battles man. Otherwise your comments could be mistaken as being elitist,... and there are other forums for those types of people. Having first hand knowledge of just how much work Paul has done trying to get everyone the best possible sword with the most possible options for an affordable price, i can assure you that any problems that come up (especially when it affects a customer) is devastating to him. Everything has to start somewhere, and this whole thing has been a learning process. The line has come a long way from the many prototypes - to the first production pieces. There were many testers who reviewed prototypes for Paul (myself included) to try and find the best possible swords for the price. In fact, we are still reviewing prototypes for future models, and they are looking very promising.
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Mar 19, 2010 2:13:53 GMT
Cory, you have done an excellent job on this review and you have no idea how much I'm impressed by it; you didn't jump the gun, fly off the handle or lose your cool when you recieved what had to be a very disapointing sword. Instead you acted as I think a grown man(or woman) should act. You posted an honest review, expressing in a non-inflamatory way, all your concerns and had already sought a resolution with Paul. Who, BTW, is as stand up as a man can be.
I'm glad to know all has been resolved in this matter and more importantly that there are "new" members of your caliber joining up every day. A very well earned karma from me.
As for the posts degrading this type of sword and complaining, I've yet to see those (that) member show themselves to be anything other than a whiner and know it all who can't qualify where their knowledge stems from. So, I choose to ignore them....most of the time.
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Major, Cory J.~
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Mar 19, 2010 2:48:36 GMT
Well thank you very much Avery. I really appreciate the comment (I have not always been accused of such nice things that you mentioned! ) I didn't even want to mention to anyone that it was a SBG, as I thought it may hurt their reputation as they just reopened them for sale. But when I was asked over and over, and somebody had already stated the right answer (3 times.) I couldn't really hide it. I assumed that Paul would take care of me (Which he DID! ) and I originally just wanted to know if I should use it or not (as I had waited a long time for the chance to cut with a Katana!). When more and more people asked me to review it as they thought that could be helpful, I did. The thought of "bashing" the sword line in the review never crossed my mind, as I had ordered the SBG Custom for 2 main reasons: 1, Good priced CUSTOM sword, of (like %99.9 of the comments on them that is) good quality. And if anything was wrong Paul would be there to stand by his product. 2. I wanted a SBG sword, not another brand sold at SBG Store, A SBG SWORD!I look forward to saving and getting a custom Professional Katana later this year (if the wife lets me that is , and after I buy my first gun and "jazz" it up. SKS BABY, OOORAHH!). Don't worry though. once I get the sword fixed up, I'll re-review it and make a cutting video. (hopefully we can get a few more stars added to end result!)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 5:28:57 GMT
Cory, i apologize for disrupting your review thread like this, you did a really great review of the sword and i cannot compliment you enough on it.
I don't want my words to be misinterpreted, i was in no way saying that when a sword has defects that we (reviewers) shouldn't mention - or gloss over them. Its always important to be honest, and your review was nothing short of that, so have a +1 from me!
The only gripe (i guess) i had was about folks jumping to conclusions so quickly (not you obviously). I have never met Paul in person but i do know the man, and i didn't doubt for a second that he would fix this.
Now, should it need to be fixed in the first place? Well,... no. One should be able to get the quality sword they ordered the first time. Unfortunately, these things happen from time to time. I can remember testing out an early prototype SBG Elite model about a year ago, and there were many quality issues that needed to be addressed. Paul talked to the forge and demanded these problems be ironed out or he was going to look elsewhere. Well, they fixed a lot of the key issues but in the end Paul didn't feel they were consistent enough to turn out quality pieces, so he dropped them and searched for a better forge. (at least, i think that's what happened?) I dunno, this was like a year & a half ago so i may be a little off...
The point is, (or at least the point i was trying to make was) that when something like this happens with a defect Paul gets really pissed at those responsible. You better believe that if he puts his personal stamp on something that whatever that is will be as expected. It is for that reason that i disagreed with Mr.fatbucket about labeling these swords "crap" (the entire line that is).
In closing, i am sorry that after this long wait your sword ended up having major issues. I hope your replacement reaches you swiftly, and is the way it should be. I look forward to seeing you review it should you decide to have another go at it.
Sorry again for the waves, ;D
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Post by wiwingti on Mar 19, 2010 6:49:02 GMT
very good review
but,
the problem is that, it can happen sometimes to get a lemon and it doesn't mean that the vendor sold it on purpuse and only one bad review(without having let the time to the vendor to remediate to the problem or to answer back(before make the review) can damage a reputation that the vendor do not necessarilly deserve.
an honest review is necessarry but, an answer from the dealer or apologise to you or explaination is usually needed before making a review.
that way,, the way that thread have gone against vendors or crap that vendors are selling) wouldn't have been duscussed , i think lol
anyway,, it is my opinion and not necessary the good one or the only one, but mine.
Marc
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Mar 19, 2010 7:56:39 GMT
very good review but, the problem is that, it can happen sometimes to get a lemon and it doesn't mean that the vendor sold it on purpuse and only one bad review(without having let the time to the vendor to remediate to the problem or to answer back(before make the review) can damage a reputation that the vendor do not necessarilly deserve. an honest review is necessarry but, an answer from the dealer or apologise to you or explaination is usually needed before making a review. that way,, the way that thread have gone against vendors or crap that vendors are selling) wouldn't have been duscussed , i think lol anyway,, it is my opinion and not necessary the good one or the only one, but mine. Marc Marc, I know where you're coming from on this and gotta say that you, as not only a member but also a great vendor here on this forum, is one of the greatest assets folks like us can have. But I have to disagree with this. an honest review is necessarry but, an answer from the dealer or apologise to you or explaination is usually needed before making a review. Every person, I feel, has the right to speak out when they recieve something that is less than promised. Respectfully, of course. These ARE the types of reviews that this community needs in order to ensure that we not only get a good blade but also get a better understanding of the people who sell the blades and how they stand behind the blades they sell. I've always known you to be a man who's honest and goes well beyond the boundries when it comes to any issue with anything you sell; but to be honest man, if I bought an axe/sword/anything and it was a piece of $#!t I would say so. Its just as important, IMO, to know that you can trust the person you bought the blade from as it is the blade itself. And you're a man I'd recommend anyone to, on that you have my word. But to say he should've waited in posting this review....no offense but I disagree.
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Post by shadowhowler on Mar 19, 2010 8:09:19 GMT
I see both sides...
*I* personaly would wait till I had contacted whoever I had bought the sword from and worked out the issues before posting my review. That way, when I do the review, I can tell the WHOLE story and people can respond to it... rather then have an on-going saga. However, I would never presume to tell others that they must or should do it the same way I would... but I would do it that way.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 9:12:48 GMT
James.
On vendors: The difference is that while Paul may have fantastic customer service, other products and deals it doesn't that doesn't encroach on my point. Those have nothing to do with the quality of this particular line. My opinion isn't based on a single review. I'm talking about the line in general. He could wrap this in a bow and deliver it himself and it wouldn't make this overpriced product any better.
"But for the money, I seriously doubt that you will find a better deal"
Do you want me to rattle off a list? I can if you want write down EVERY sword that is indisputably better quality than the SBG custom at the same price and cheaper.
The option to "customise" doesn't change the fact that these have cheap shoe lace ito, sageo, habaki, sepa and saya.
"I love it when people are outraged that the $300 sword has the same pieces as swords in the same price range."
This next part of your post where you quote mine me to strengthen your own argument is utter crap. It was a rhetorical question. I wasn't even remotely arguing that fact. Quite the contrary. The parts on these swords well below that of those in their price range and those that are cheaper. Taking what I said out of context and changing it is morally and intellectually bankrupt.
Hi Avery: Its nice to see that instead of refuting my point you just bash me. Can you explain how you know the background and extent of my knowledge?
Tom K: "but I think you typed before you thought things through and ended up putting your foot in your mouth."
No. Again with this argument that somehow that the customer support changes the fact that these swords are badly quality and over priced.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 11:14:39 GMT
Do you want me to rattle off a list? I can if you want write down EVERY sword that is indisputably better quality than the SBG custom at the same price and cheaper. Yes, absolutely Mr. know-it-all, please give me a list. You tell me where i can buy a T-10 blade, Mounted with: - My choice of ito material - My choice of ito color - My choice of same color - My choice of saya color - My choice of saya texture - My choice of sageo color - My choice of fuller/un-fullered - My choice in fuchi & kashira - My choice of tsuba + Shipping + Satisfaction Guaranteed Customer Service For $330 .......................................................? Hows that for a list ^ Have you ever even handled one of these blades, personally? What swords have you owned? Clearly you are an unquestionable authority when it comes to the SBG semi-custom line of katana, but just in case you were interested here's some other reviews from people who have actually owned these. /index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=swordreviews&thread=9929&post=160404 /index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=swordreviews&thread=9348&post=150365 "morally and intellectually bankrupt" eh? I think you should try re-reading your own posts fella...
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Major, Cory J.~
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Mar 19, 2010 15:08:05 GMT
mrfatbucket- From EVERY review I have read about the SBG Customs, they are GREAT. That's why I ordered one. I wanted a great sword. Sure some people have had some little errors with theirs (wrong color saya, different fitting than ordered, oddly painted fittings), but, in the end, after talking to Paul about the issue, I have yet to hear anyone say they didn't like their swords.
Yes, it sucks I got the 1 major lemon in the pile. I informed Paul, he fixed/handled the problem (SAME F*CKING DAY NO LESS! I live in Canada hes in Australia!!!). No reason to bash his entire line of swords. I look forward to cutting with my SBG Custom, and any other SBG sword I order in the future!
So, PLEASE! Take the stick out of your @$$ and quit the vendor bashing.
MCJ~
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 16:18:20 GMT
MrFatBucket, I believe most people here can hear and respect that you don't like the SBG customs and that you wouldn't want to buy one. Any opinions are welcome. But they have to be taken as that ; opinions, nothing more.
Right now, I have the feeling you are presenting your opinions as facts and making broad judgement about a single incident, and then twisting every single word that does who disagree say so that you can be right at all cost. Personnaly I am annoyed as hell by that. I don't mind that you think those kat' are POS, but I find it distasteful to go around saying how much you are right, that these katanas are a scam, that they are poorly made (compared to other products that you are refering to but HAVEN'T NAMED ANYWHERE IN THIS THREAD) and that nobody should buy them.
I don't know what your goal is. If you want to help other sword buyers get better product, please say what is wrong and what can be upgraded in this line of product, and/or suggest other products. That would help people to not think that you are just there to thrash some vendors and fellow forumnites. In the end, I hope you will at least agree to disagree with us, about what is best for sword buyers, rather than keeping going your righteous crusade against the great evil of imperfect katanas sold by malicious vendors (that last part was sarcastic, BTW).
Another thing, if you don't mind, tell us about your sword collection ; although I have read plenty about your opinions, I still have no clue about what sword that you own.
Cory, sorry for the thread hijack, those sort of things don't happen very often, but I do apologise.
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Mar 19, 2010 16:55:32 GMT
Hi Avery: Its nice to see that instead of refuting my point you just bash me. Can you explain how you know the background and extent of my knowledge? Listen man, I don't know your background, that was the point I was making. You behave as if you are an authority on this subject but I haven't the faintest idea where your knowledge stems from....I think I already said that. Generally I'd just ignore you and go on about my buisiness but I don't think I will on this one. Why should I bother refuting your points when others have done so and yet you won't answer their questions. James made a good post, answer his questions and you might gain some ground, I doubt it but you might. We've exchanged words before in which I asked that you start another thread instead of hijacking a review thread but you have not done so. Why is that? I realize your statements involve the SBG kat here, but I think everything that can be said has been covered when it comes to Corys review. So start a thread in the Japanese section and continue this topic in your own thread instead of derailing this one.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Mar 19, 2010 16:56:55 GMT
it is just my opinion but maybe most of the content of this thread should have been via pm's? I just feel that it detracts from the review. at least maybe an admin. could move the bulk of it to a different heading or something. though there are many valid points made here they don't really seem focused on the review itself but rather more of a personal back and forth kind of thing. maybe it should be re-posted in the vendors/manufacturers section? interesting and certainly intense but IMO misplaced. again, just my two dollars and two cents(inflation!)
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