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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2010 5:26:34 GMT
I recently bought a Gen2 Black Prince, as my first European sword. The very positive SBG review was what finally sold me on it. I'm very impressed with the sword overall, but I can't seem to make it cut worth anything. Thrusting through a target is absolutely effortless, as I understand it should be with this type of sword, but against a 2L bottle, cuts produce nothing more than a large dent and send the target flying across the yard. Occassionally, I've been able to get a ragged cut/tear through, but these are rare. Smaller water bottles are a joke - they get launched even further, and never in more than one piece. The edge that came on it is what I would consider dull-ish. I can grab it firmly with my weak hand or run my thumb up the blade slowly with no danger of cutting myself. It will slice/tear a sheet of paper only after running almost the full length of the blade. I can see and feel the appleseed profile pretty clearly, but the cutting edge just doesn't seem to be there. So, I tried my hand at sharpening it, using this method www.swordsofvalor.com/swordsharpening.htmlbut substituting progressively finer sandpaper for the initial filing, since my sword already has an ogived edge geometry. Similarly to this vid, I started with 220 grit and worked up to 1000, oiling it frequently, always sanding away from the edge, and varying the angle of the blade to maintain the ogive edge. The edge got a bit sharper, but didn't feel overly different than the factory edge, and still would not cut any better. So, how should I approach this? Am I not being aggressive enough in my sharpening? Do I just suck at cutting? Maybe I should try a different sharpening method?
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Post by YlliwCir on Feb 17, 2010 6:06:52 GMT
Hello, Bob. If you are brand new to cutting, yes you probably suck at cutting. No offense I sucked at cutting at first also which I expect a lot of people do. I played a lot of baseball at first, almost to the point of giving up. Keep trying. I pretty much learned to cut in this thread here. A lot of good advice in there, pay special attention to ShooterMikes vids and suggestions. Sounds to me your sword is lacking a bit in sharpness. I like mine to be able to cut paper easily. That manual method in Tom's vid does work, it just takes a while or it did me anyway. A faster easier way is to use a slack belt sander like the one from Harbor Freight. Tom also has a tutorial on that and it's my preferred method. Having said all that, some swords cut better than others and I haven't handled Gen2's Black Prince. It's primarily a thrusting sword from what I gather but that don't mean it won't cut. I have some dedicated thrusting swords that cut well enough. Just might take some more practice than a blade designed for cutting. At any rate keep at it and good luck.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2010 10:20:47 GMT
I agree with Ric, euro sword cutting is not as easy as it looks, some of the pros one here make it look easier then it is. I have batted a my fair share of bottles across the garden. I found for ages I just couldn't cut at all and then all of a sudden something clicked and it all came together, the balance of the sword, the technique, the speed, and I think the main thing the confidence.
However it does help to have a sharp blade. I find that 240 grit sand paper will not take of enough metal to get a very blunt sword sharp you may want to start with a file though be careful as you can take a lot of metal off with a file. It should be noticeably sharp after filing, then move to sandpaper. You may have to put some serious elbow grease in with the sandpaper, but you should end up with a very sharp sword.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2010 12:24:54 GMT
I am also new to backyard cutting. A soda bottle is not as easy a target as one would think. Try milk jugs first. The plastic is much softer. After a little practice I was able to slice one inch sections with my hand and a half. I agree that your sword my not be sharp enough. Take your time and spend as much time as it takes(usually an afternoon), and get it sharp. If you were fighting armored opponents real sharp would not be good, but for plastic bottles sharp is good.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2010 14:32:59 GMT
I also have the Gen2 Black Prince. Bobthegreat is right about it not being sharp. My experience with it is the same: I could run my fingers along the edge without fear of cutting them.
I tried the sandpaper sharpening and it was just taking too long. I used a diamond file, a very fine one, and a light touch. I got much better results that I followed with finer grits of sandpaper. I got my BP to a nice paper cutting sharp edge.
Once sharp I noticed it could cut, but not well. Type XVs are just not great cutters. Edge alignment is critical, moreso than say a type XII. Another very important thing to remember is to cut further up the blade where there is more width to the blade.
Even with those in mind, 2 liter soda bottles are batted more than cut. Small bottles are better, though still a challenge.
Overall, as much as I dislike saying it, I am not impressed with the BP.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2010 15:48:31 GMT
Thanks all. That's about what I thought. A dull-ish thrust-centric sword + a guy new to european swords = baseball bat. Come to think of it, I did try one milk jug with somewhat better results, but it was still more of a tear than a clean cut. I also have a Cheness Tenchi that I practice with now and then. It will slice a 2L bottle into rings with no problem, so I figured they would not be a difficult target for the Black Prince either. I guess I didn't realize the cutting technique was so different. Ric, thanks for that thread. Looks like lots of good info in there. Are there any specific drills or techniques for improving my edge alignment? I like the balance and weight of the sword, and like I said thrusting with it is a no-brainer. I don't need it to be a lightsaber, but it would be nice to be able to cut some light targets. I've heard good and bad things about sharpening with a slack belt sander. Some people say it's the only way to go, others swear it will ruin the sword's temper and turn it into a pool noodle. I guess, like everything else, it probably comes down to technique and not allowing the sword to heat up. What would be harder for a first-time sharpener to screw up on - diamond files or a belt sander? I don't suppose there is anybody in the southeast Louisiana or southern Mississippi area who would be willing to help a noob put an edge on his sword?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2010 22:02:18 GMT
The gen 2 black prnice cuts just fine. Mine came plenty sharp...not so sharp that I can't half sword it with bare hands...but sharp enough. The XVa is pretty harsh about technique...so it's a good training sword in the fact that it does not let you get even a little bit sloppy like the katana. Get tobler's book or look up the 4 primary guards of the german school. You wanna go from one of those to another when you cut.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2010 0:09:23 GMT
The gen 2 black prnice cuts just fine. Mine came plenty sharp...not so sharp that I can't half sword it with bare hands...but sharp enough. The XVa is pretty harsh about technique...so it's a good training sword in the fact that it does not let you get even a little bit sloppy like the katana. Get tobler's book or look up the 4 primary guards of the german school. You wanna go from one of those to another when you cut. What is Tobler's book? Do you have a link? I'm familiar with the Liechtenauer guards, and yeah, that's a good point to keep in mind. I did some more cutting today, with more emphasis on snapping at the wrist to accelerate the blade through the target and generating the power from my hips. The changes to technique helped a bunch, and I was able to get fairly clean cuts through the smaller coke bottles and milk jugs, even with the not-so-sharp edge. The 2L bottles still just get batted around though. This is a big improvement over my last attempt, but I still want to sharpen up the edge a bit, if I can figure out the best way to do so. I'm still a bit gunshy on that point (advice is very welcome). For a change, I also did some cutting with my Windlass Lakonian (bought that after reading your review, Rick - thanks), and it made short work of the 2L's and everything else I cut with it. That was very satisfying after struggling with the Black Prince.
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Post by johnlundemo1 on Feb 18, 2010 8:14:53 GMT
Sounds to me like your sword has a very robust thick or appleseed edge, so even when sharp it will tend to push things over. Like taking a blunt sword and trying to put an edge on it. The whole blade would need to be reground for a great cutting edge. Fat edge bevels are are more for heavy armoured opponents not fine cutting. So don't take it out on european swords, they are not all made like this. Sometimes it is not a matter of keep practicing but a matter of too much convex on the edge. On the other hand it might handle heavier targets well like green bamboo. I like to make a fine edge from the beginning, but that's just me:)
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