For the Taiji guys.

Gundoggy, Yes, I've noticed that about WU style before. And there is a generational change between the forms derived from Yang Ban Hou and Yang Chen Fu. Much as there is a change between the YCF forms and what is currently being taught by Yang Zhen Duo and Yang Jun. If one tries to trace things back to before the Chen family who taught Yang Lu Chan we either get the mythological roots of taiji as being invented by the Taoist Scholar Chang San Feng (from the Wudang region) or we find military documents like - General QI Jiguang's "Quanjing Jieyao Pian" also now as Jixiaoxinshu. (I have the .pdf of this if anybody wants it, although it references an out of print book for the illustrations which I have not yet been able to track down a copy of.)

And yes again, firearms do make swordsmanship irrelevant on a battlefield. There are many days I just wish our arts had been better preserved over time. The JSA guys have it so easy by comparison there. Again sorry about the rant, but I have also been in a few arguments lately over whether or not taiji is a legitimate combat art on some other websites. I'm also beginning to have some issues with the modern Wudang taiji style which came out of Hong Kong.

As for the low stances, Laojia Chen taijiquan also uses lots of them, and they are important training techniques for those who can do them. That's one of the reason I prefer the CMC/ZMQ style for it's middle and high frame stances - but in my case that is solely personal preference. I will also not deny the role of my own styles founder Professor Cheng Man Ch'ing in promoting the health aspects of taiji to almost the exclusion of the martial aspects, although the martial aspects are considered important in this style and we are to practice our forms with martial intent in mind.

There are usable martial techniques in that first vid I posted, if you know where and how to look for them. There are actually several pommel strikes buried in that form which the WMA guys will point out can be devastating techniques when used properly. However, sliding the blade of your own sword along your body while turning, just seems like an accident waiting to happen to me.

Scott Rodell and GRTC are doing a great deal to bring about a return to historical, practical sword skills in the Taiji world. His work is our "Reclaiming the Blade." Once my tax refund gets here this year I'll finally be able to pick up his work (book and DVD) along with "The Complete Taiji Dao" which although written by a master of the Wu style (I still don't get that tilt thing they do, I like vertical myself ) does reference the modern 13 saber form used by the Yang style. I know there's an older Yang based saber form but I haven't found much on it apart form a few DVDs I haven't been able to afford.

Again, my apologies to the forum for the rant but I get tired of having to defend myself as actually practicing a martial art all the time

The more people think your art is only exercise and useless in combat, the beneficial it is for you!!!

Why enlighten them at all???

My own Sifu commented that many Tai Chi forms have innocuous looking moves so that one can practice them openly yet techniques are hidden.

Liam I reread this thread it stirred some memories.

I've noted that in many demonstrations of use of Tai Chi Jian (especially public forms) the Duifang is using a long energy committed cut. This is analogous to empty hand demonstrations where the guy typically attacks with ONE long energy fully committed attack.

Then when you try to use the application where the guy uses short energy attacks from strong defensive positions, it's hard to pull off. Kind of like trying to use empty hand technique that worked in demo but now the guy is feinting and jabbing and it doesn't work!!!

On GRTC, there were discussions that the later public jian form may have moves that dealt with dissimilar weapons...shorter/longer that may not be ideal against another jian.

Now caveat is that the moves do work in the right situation, I have used certain public yang jian moves in freeplay successfully usually this is very rare.

A good system should have effective techniques against both long energy and short energy (jab like) attacks!!

Well if it is the MMA guys giving you a hard time, ask them if they want to try their MMA skills against you with a Jian.

As far as swordsman ship goes, I don't know what to think. You could never test the ability of the swordsmen correctly unless he partook in a duel using live blades. When one spars with wooden swords, he does not have the adrenaline to speed his body. He does not feel the same sense of panic.

Although you can get pretty close to it when both swordsmen partake in a duel (With wooden swords) in full contact and no armor. ;D I would know... It is freaking scary. If your skill is not up to par, your going to get a good sized bruise. My older brother broke his wooden sword on my leg and I cut open my friends chin once.

I've casually sparred some MMA guys at the college before, and a lot of underestimating of traditional arts comes from the rules and, I thought most importantly, the gloves.

Example: One guy I fought had about thirty pounds on me. I still got in a couple clean shots and took him to the ground (funny that a lot don't recognize Shuai Jiao moves) but the others still gave him the match due to two hooks he got on me. Later, I was helping him with some different strikes and he decided to sneak in a front kick at me. By instinct, I did a fairly messy Brushing Knee (I think that's how you translate it) and knocked the wind out of him. He asked why I didn't do that during sparring and I replied that there are a lot better ways of attacking available when you don't have to strike through an inch of squishy foam.

But few are going to risk fighting bare knuckled just to demonstrate effectiveness and so MMA guys will continue to mock.

You know it's funny I ran into one of those MMA guys again. Apparently even though I have to walk with a cane these days he still couldn't casually knock me down. (Bastard tried to kick my cane out from under me at the shopping mall.) Anyway, the moral of the story I remained standing and several retirees who were present decided to start berating the young man and giving chase. They may be old but they ain't dead. Age and treachery....

Hey all, just posting in as a tai chi player, I learned chen style in kowloon, taiwan, May '70. I soon became aware that my celtic physic was not meant for the low long stances, I switched to Cheng Man Ching's yang style short form. I picked that up in the early '80s and haven't looked back. I teach a class in the Theodosia, MO. area. Also look at the site gilmanstudios.com. Well bye for now, Padric

Thank you for straightening me out. Keelung, Taiwan was the place I was really thinking about.
I've stuck pretty much to yang style. As far as lineage. I believe this is padric style, I learned the basics, fundamentals, from some one. I have learned from a variety of teachers, most taught me, or I was learnable ( spell checked it), what tai chi was. Tai chi saber and jian has been self taught.