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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2010 20:16:02 GMT
It would seem that with plate armor the weight is evenly distributed across the body, although a full chain mail hauberk weighing 30-40 pounds, would be mostly on the shoulders. If you were a Crusader and also wearing mail leggings, a coif, a helm along with padding and a surcoat in 100 degree+ weather you'd probably be pretty hot...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2010 22:18:47 GMT
im gonna take a shot in the dark and guess it ways all together around 75lbs. then you also have to add the weight of a kite shield his sword or axe and anything else he might be carrying
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2010 22:21:59 GMT
and they didnt have gatorade back then and the water was well water at best. were soft compared to our ancestors
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2010 23:09:05 GMT
Today's suits of butted mail generally weigh a little more than flattened riveted mail due to thickness of the rings.
This is an average so lets not talk exceptions!
My butted weighs about 28 lbs, your average sword (4lbs or a little less), belt , dagger& scabbards (fiqure maybe another 4lb) for shield and helm (around 6 more) axe or pole arm( another 4lb) so the total would be closer to 50lb.
If you don't put some padding on under the mail where it lays on your shoulders you will get maille marks imbedded in the skin, otherwise it reallly isn't that uncomfortable to wear all day long.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2010 23:55:50 GMT
You can also use cords woven into the chainmail to help support the weight. It´s not that bad in hot weather as long as you have water to stay hydrated. Now HUMID and hot and your in trouble.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2010 1:00:21 GMT
Chain actually breathes better than plate, so you'd be a little less uncomfortable than the walking tanks.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2010 1:36:54 GMT
I've always found mail to be more tiring to wear than plate because of the way it hangs on the body. One thing to note - it really helps when wearing a longer mail hauberk to belt it pretty tightly at the waist. That helps to transfer some of the weight to the hips. As for which is hotter- I think it depends more on what kind of gambeson/arming-coat you wear under it. Generally I've worn thicker gambesons under mail, since it absorbs so much less percussive force (is that the right term?), so mail has been less comfortable in hot weather. Also, unless painted a dark colour, I'd imagine plate would reflect more sunlight and so keep one a bit cooler. So, in my experience, plate is less tiring and cooler to wear. The advantage of mail is that it's more 'one-size-fits-all. To work well, plate needs to be fitted to the individual. My $0.02 Cheers Marc E
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2010 2:22:29 GMT
I can't remember were I heard it, but I've heard that a knight fully outfit in chainmail would be wearing about 60 lbs worth of stuff, while many modern soldiers end up carrying up to 90lbs around, even in combat. I'm not sure if that's accurate, but it seems reasonable. I've also heard that wearing a belt over chainmail lets you support its weight from your hips as well as your shoulders, which probably helps with things a good bit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2010 2:34:21 GMT
I can't remember were I heard it, but I've heard that a knight fully outfit in chainmail would be wearing about 60 lbs worth of stuff, while many modern soldiers end up carrying up to 90lbs around, even in combat. I'm not sure if that's accurate, but it seems reasonable. I've also heard that wearing a belt over chainmail lets you support its weight from your hips as well as your shoulders, which probably helps with things a good bit. Actually, that figure's for how much a knight is wearing when outfitted in full plate. You're on the right track though. Mail isn't very heavy at all when properly tailored and a hauberk can weigh anywhere from 20 to about 25 pounds. Most of the stuff that's easy access though, the Indian butted stuff, is a little heavier, because of the extra baggage. I've done my share of fairs though, and having padded clothing beneath mail of any sort really makes wearing it a lot easier. If you can't get ahold of a true arming garment, even a sweater or two will be better than nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2010 18:05:06 GMT
The heaviest coat of mail I recall reading about was 32 pounds. It had a few "extra" spots and it was slightly larger than usual. I -think- it first was shown to me in the first journal of the Mail Research Society, which is now free if you ask Eric for a copy.
M.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2010 18:41:59 GMT
Mail stay in place alot better than maille. When you move with maille on it moves of its own accord and changes where the weight is focused and such. With well fitted mail it is like a second skin. If you want to get used to maille the best thing to do is to wear it when going for a run and when doing other everyday activities. Hank Reinhardt, God rest his soul, used to do like 5-10 kms wearing chainmail and he was pretty advanced in age.
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Post by Jeff K. ( Jak) on Jan 27, 2010 21:21:55 GMT
Owning both maille and plate I'd say that plate is definitely more tiresome....at least to fight in...just wearing it around is not bad.
My maille is home made of 12 guage wire so its pretty hefty around 35-40 lbs for the hauberk....when belted at the waist its really not that heavy...the one place you do feel it is in the shoulders from lifting your arms, but the more you train the less you feel it. But in the end it moves a lot easier than plate which tends to restrict movement unless its meticulously measured and re-measured to fit you exactly, which is impossible to achieve when ordering armor on line.
of course my experiences are based on my 15th century plate...i imagine earlier plate, like 14th, might not be as bad....my pauldrons are larger and cover more area but aren't as cextrous as earlier espaulires or spaulders. Also my arms are completely enclosed and although they swivel at the bicep, they do resrict movement more than something open on the inside of the arm.
I'll also agree with an above post that yeah maille does breathe better than plate, you still sweat pretty good under maille but after a couple hours of fighting, if you touch my plate, its really warm, where as maille doesnt get as hot.....but still as you say in 100+ degree heat....i cant imagine how bad that must have been. Especially if you were fresh to the middle east from somewher temperate like England.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2010 22:45:05 GMT
so much less percussive force (is that the right term?),Marc E Close. Try "Bludgeoning force."
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Post by Jeff K. ( Jak) on Jan 28, 2010 1:16:39 GMT
so much less percussive force (is that the right term?),Marc E Close. Try "Bludgeoning force." Actually I think percussive force is just as, if not more so, a definitive term.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2010 5:32:40 GMT
Close. Try "Bludgeoning force." Actually I think percussive force is just as, if not more so, a definitive term. Only for blows to the head. Percussive force from hand wielded weapons is insufficient to do anything to the body and doesn't really have that much impact on the head either. Particularly hard hits will make your ears ring, but the raw bludgeoning force will do that, too. Remember, percussive force is a noise. Comes from the acoustic shock wave of the blow. It's rather specific and is still a bludgeoning force even when it is powerful enough to actually do something. Anyway, now that we've had our vocab lesson for the day, back to the thread...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2010 8:34:26 GMT
Concussive M.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2010 8:50:38 GMT
Let me see if I can straighten this out:
A concussive impact is when you swear as you're getting hit.
A precussive impact is when you swear just before you get hit.
There's also a recussive impact, which is when you keep swearing for a while afterwards.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2010 11:05:08 GMT
Concussive M. Lord, what a load of fuss! I was very tired when I made my post, and my brain kept arguing with itself over whether percussive or concussive was correct. As best I can work out with the aid of a couple of dictionaries and my dim memory of university latin either could apply to the force conducted into the body from a cutting weapon that fails to penetrate mail. Percussion- "the striking of one solid object with or against another", from the latin percutere ‘strike forcibly’ Concussion- "a violent shock as from a heavy blow", from the latin concutere ‘dash together, shake’. Of the two, I think I prefer percussive, because concussive evokes things like 'concussion grenades', and of course the colloquial use of 'concussion' for "mild traumatic head injury". But really, we know what we're talking about, so now can we get back to the OP topic? Cheers Marc E (PS- LOL eruialsul! I think I prefer your definitions!)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2010 23:49:43 GMT
Hey! i have fought in chaim mail even ran laps in chain mail. It is sooooo heavy on your shoulders and saps your energy.
if your gonna get Chain mail. do Aluminum.
L
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2010 6:50:07 GMT
Let me see if I can straighten this out: A concussive impact is when you swear as you're getting hit. A precussive impact is when you swear just before you get hit. There's also a recussive impact, which is when you keep swearing for a while afterwards. Actually, I like these better...
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