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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2010 0:07:11 GMT
I have had rusting problems with only Hanwei Swords, Practical series, Tori Raptor ETC. They have been the only swords that have rusted even though I oiled them right away and have continued to do so. When I have oiled them, there were no indications of rust forming but later I could see that rust had formed UNDER the oil. After the first indication of rust, I used WD40 to remove and polished (lightly with Metal Glow) and reoiled. The blade looked brand new. But as I stated above, rust reappeared. I then used 600 and 900 grit to remove the rust. A very faint mark/stain was visible. Used metal Glo again and reoiled the blade. Again rust is appearing. Does anyone have a solution?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2010 0:16:35 GMT
I would strip the finish from the metal glow with a solvent, and then oil, or use renwax....SanMarc.
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Post by Jeff K. ( Jak) on Jan 7, 2010 5:35:41 GMT
Funny, I haven't oiled my swords for a LOOOONG time. I put my fingers all over the blades and just wipe 'em off with a rag after cutting water filled bottles and I have never seen a speck of rust on them ( Ive had darkened spots where I didn't notice that water had splashed on them and actually sat on the blade for a while.) Must be the dry climate here.
Im curious what will happen when I move back to the West Coast, will they just start showing rust spots while hanging on the wall from humidity? I may have to invest in some more oil or this Ren wax you speak of.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2010 5:38:36 GMT
i have 3 hanwei blades, a dado, an agincourt, and a hand and a halk tinker design that i customized. i have other blades from other manufacturers and all of them have rust problems if not well kept.
the way i personally take care of my blades is i (after drying them off after cutting session) i polish with neverdull (or your favorite metal paste), then i clean it with a towel soaked in 90% alcohol (pharmaceutical/ hospital grade), then use dry cloth to wipe fully, at that point what i do depends on whether i am storing or displaying. if i am displaying it i will coat a light coating of remoil gun oil. if i am storing it, i will use a maild to moderate coate of dupont teflon multi-use dry wax lubricant, which is a type of polymer used to protect farm tools or machine chains. i have found this safe for my metals. i buy it at the local hardware store. the gun oil i get at walmart.
you will get lots of suggestions from a lot of great guys hear that will all work well... but the stuff i use is great for the budget minded. also the dupont stuff is adherent enough to the blade, and is a little waxy, and takes a little elbow grease to clean off (about like cosmoline).
hope this helps... from a hanwei owner.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2010 5:42:54 GMT
Funny, I haven't oiled my swords for a LOOOONG time. I put my fingers all over the blades and just wipe 'em off with a rag after cutting water filled bottles and I have never seen a speck of rust on them ( Ive had darkened spots where I didn't notice that water had splashed on them and actually sat on the blade for a while.) Must be the dry climate here. Im curious what will happen when I move back to the West Coast, will they just start showing rust spots while hanging on the wall from humidity? I may have to invest in some more oil or this Ren wax you speak of. i live in south east texas... humid city. rust spots are a pandemic that viruses sword blades here, the best antigen that i have found is what i posted above, so if you move back to humid climate, keep it in mind. cheers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2010 5:55:41 GMT
Sorry to ask but are you storing them in the sayas?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2010 7:37:11 GMT
not for long term storage... better wrapped in plastic.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2010 9:39:48 GMT
Like I said, this is only happening with the Hanwei swords. I have had the Chenese swords in the car through winter-spring---no rust. I live in Pittsburgh, PA
I am wondering if this is just a bad batch since I bougth two at a time.
I have kept them in the sayo.
What I see as odd is that after the rust removal, everything looks fine
Then later, rust is coming up UNDER the oil.
Any comments? I may have to use a 400 grit and then 600 and 900 and try again.
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Post by Dan Davis on Jan 7, 2010 13:02:36 GMT
You have gotten something into the grain of the steel; it is below the surface and is acting as a corrosive agent from beneath the surface. Cleaning the rust from the blade is like treating the symptoms; you have not fixed the issue so it will keep returning. - Clean the blade as sirtre suggested but do not oil it
- soak it in a concentrated solution of pure ammonia for several days. Keep the ammonia heated if you can
- Rinse several times in very hot (boiling is good) water
- Dry thoroughly and as fast as you can, you want the steel to stay hot
- oil it with a light machine oil (RemOil or Breakfree are good) while the steel is HOT
- keep an eye on it; this will return and you will need to repeat this process more than once. The quicker you catch the rusting, the sooner you repeat the process, the better off you will be.
This happens a lot, and not just with Hanwei swords. I deal with it fairly often.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2010 23:03:56 GMT
Dan
I assumed that the issue was below the surface since the rust was coming up under the oil. I never used these swords so scratches were not the cause.
I knew that I wanted to find a product to soak the swords and you provided me with detailed instructions on what I can soak them in. I am certainly going to try that and follow all the instructions to a tee.
Do you think that I should use the 600 or 900 grit first or just leave that part out?
Also, the rusting on the Practical XL Light is in the Hamon. The Tori is all over, same with the raptor.
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Post by Dan Davis on Jan 8, 2010 14:20:46 GMT
If you have active surface rust then clean it off first. I recommend using windex as a lubricant instead of plain water and change your paper often as dull paper acts as a burnishing agent and closes the grain of the steel.
This, by the way, is why most production blades do not show this problem very often. The powered belt sanders used in production lines tends to burnish the steel and close the grain. Hanwei uses stones, which tend to leave the grain open.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2010 22:02:37 GMT
Vince, let's do an experiment shall we?
Clean your Hanwei swords as normal, removing any rust and then re-oil them. DO NOT put them back in their saya. Leave them out. Secure them of course so they do not harm anything or anyone. Just leave them out for about the same time you noticed the rust forming. See if it still forms on the blades. If not there may be something in your saya that is causing your blades for oxidize. Also leaving your saya out to air might just evaporate anything that may be in them as well.
Hope that helps.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2010 4:44:51 GMT
A friend was cleaning his guns and re oiling them,he told me that when different oils are used without cleaning the previous oil completely,they may combine and etch the metal from an acid that the combined oil had formed. He used brake cleaner spray to clean his guns before he used the new oil.Brake cleaner will clean metal quick and it will be bone dry. I always keep at least 1 can of brake cleaner in the garage,the stuff woks wonders cleaning any metal,you gotta be careful on painted areas and plastics tho.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2010 5:23:34 GMT
A friend was cleaning his guns and re oiling them,he told me that when different oils are used without cleaning the previous oil completely,they may combine and etch the metal from an acid that the combined oil had formed. He used brake cleaner spray to clean his guns before he used the new oil.Brake cleaner will clean metal quick and it will be bone dry. I always keep at least 1 can of brake cleaner in the garage,the stuff woks wonders cleaning any metal,you gotta be careful on painted areas and plastics tho. mmm, i might have to try that instead of alcohol... what say you Dan? it works well on brake discs, but that being cast iron, would it make a big difference?
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Post by Dan Davis on Feb 10, 2010 13:21:29 GMT
I would need to see what chemicals are used in brake cleaner before I let it near my sword.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2010 14:11:06 GMT
Brake cleaner will leave a film or residue on your blade that will need to be wiped off, the same with carburetor cleaner. The resultant film can be stubborn to remove at times, so you should be sure to use something along the lines of acetone to be sure to remove the residue.
You will not want to get the stuff on your swords furniture at all, period. carb or brake cleaner will remove wood finish, stain and bleach the wood, ruin leather and may compromise any epoxy or loctite used in your hilt assembly.
I would not recommend that you use it on anything other than a bare blade, and only then if it was coated in gummy tar or the like.
Wiping the blade down with denatured alcohol would be a better alternative, but there again wipe the blade only, denatured alcohol will remove leather finish and enough will mess up wood finish.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2010 1:14:05 GMT
I had rust problems on a ppe. It was only a tiny amount of spotting and was due to lack of attention on my part. I used a small amount of metal polish thinned down with oil to clear it up.
As most have said prevention is better than cure.
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