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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 8:15:10 GMT
Good morning, folks.
New to the sword forum and I wanted see if I could leverage the knowledge base here to figure out what is engraved on the tang.
Before I start posting pictures, I wanted to make sure that I was in the right part of the forum to ask this question.
Tang appears to have two arsenal stamps in it. One on the spine of the tang and one on the ura side above the mekugi hole. I've bee trying to figure out which arsenal made the blade, but no luck so far.
Omote side of the tang has five characters engraved and the ura side has two engraved.
Also, on the omote side, there appears to be the rusted remnants of a painted on signature consisting of two charaters.
Thanks for your help on this.
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Post by tajima on Jan 3, 2010 9:39:45 GMT
Hi! Welcome to the forum.
This is more well-placed in the Japanese section, but it will do to be here.
Post pics, don't be shy.
Thanks, -Brett
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 14:57:06 GMT
Thanks for the help, Brett. Here is the link to Photobucket where I have posted all of the photos. s158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/blades1987/If you need me to take a picture from another angle, please feel free to ask. If someone can translate the engravings, I am interested in also knowing the Japanese name for the kanji. Again, many thanks for all of your help. Toby
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 15:04:17 GMT
Are there any arabic numbers?
M.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 15:15:16 GMT
No. This sword does not have any serial numbers stamped in the sword.
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Jan 3, 2010 21:42:58 GMT
Yeah, you'll probably get a better response in the "Japanese" section. I'm not much on Eastern blades, but there are many here who are. If you don't a good answer here, try posting on SFI. They may be able to narrow it down further for you. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
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Post by randomnobody on Jan 3, 2010 22:18:19 GMT
The pictures are very dark and I'm having a hard time distinguishing the characters...but I can tell there is a date, I think...I just can't tell what that date is.
Didn't look at the arsenal stamp shots but I can only think of the one, anyway...
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Post by tajima on Jan 3, 2010 23:16:57 GMT
I'm going to just try and add a light filter to it to see if I can see it better.
I spent quite a while just practising reading different Nakago to see if I could get a little better at it, which I did.
I'll see what I can do for you, but it would be a lot easier to take photos outside or in the sun or something?
Thanks, -Brett
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Post by tajima on Jan 3, 2010 23:30:26 GMT
Okay, I know I'm double-posting, but I don't care haha! Alright. I've lightened up the picture and rotated it to correctly be around. I'm going to ask you the origin of the sword. Did you pick it up at an antique shop, is it an heirloom, from a museum maybe, or perhaps Ebay? I am sorry to say this, if this is an heirloom, but I'm about 90% sure this is fake. If you could, it would be a lot clearer if you could post pictures of the whole blade. However, the fact that the colour on the interior of the mei does not match that on the Nakago, the uneven filemarks, varied patina, and the extremely odd placement of the second Nakago-ana (Though this could be because the blade was shortened for some reason). This is either a cheap fake, or just a Gunto and low quality and of no value to collectors. You will most likely treasure it yourself if it is an heirloom, but otherwise it doesn't look good. Please post pictures of the blade. It will give better clarity. Thanks, -Brett
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2010 1:01:55 GMT
Hi, Brett.
The sword is not an heirloom and was poorly maintained by the previous owner, which resulted in the rust level on the sword to spiral out of control. I will post the original picture of the blade and the cleaned up version on the blade on Photobucket.
My guess is that this is a late period WW2 mass produced Gunto that I paid a couple of dollars for so that I could work on restoring a sword. Side project thing that didn't set me back a couple thousand dollars.
As for original components on the sword (which I will post as well), I have the tsuba, habaki, seppa, fuchi and tsuka. Includes a saya that was originally spray painted black.
I am not looking to find a pot of gold with this sword and knew that I could probably make my money back parting out the components. This is more of a history project for me and I am interested in understanding what the markings mean. I know the swords were turned out by the thousands during WW2.
Thanks for all of your help, Brett. FYI, I am picking up a copy of "An Oshigata Book of Modern Japanese Swordsmiths 1868-1945" by John Slough for historical reference.
Thanks again for your help and expect the pictures to be up by 02:00 GMT. (-7 GMT where I live, so it is 18:00)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2010 1:57:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2010 2:43:20 GMT
Ok, now I am multi-posting. I have cleaned up the images, per Randomnobody's request. Sorry about the low contrast and brightness. I do not have a Canon SLR and my nice camera is a Nikromat 35mm film camera. Love that camera, but it takes time to get pics developed. I have added five new photos under the original Photobucket default album. Random and Brett, I really appreciate your help with this. Brett, I gather that you are learning kani and hope this little homework assignment isn't taking up too much time. Many thanks! Toby
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Post by tajima on Jan 4, 2010 3:32:15 GMT
Toby, Holy crap, that thing is in bad condition. Where did you say you got it from? Ebay? I get that you just want to restore it, but there isn't really much history to a fake heh. Did the previous owner spray-paint it, or was this the original condition?? I stand by my thoughts that this is fake. Good luck polishing it, I say, but it's not much for history even if it was real. Sorry. However, for a more educated guess, I'm going to direct you to NMB: www.militaria.co.za/nmb/Koichi-san is a brilliant translator. Though...they don't take too kindly to people just posting random swords in there that have little or no information, even if they are genuine Nihonto. You will most likely be met with poor reception. Thanks, -Brett
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2010 4:02:20 GMT
Thanks for all of your help, Brett. I appreciate your honesty and feedback on this sword and can certainly chalk this one up to experience. Fake or not, it's certainly a learning experience and I am doing a lot of reading on the internet about the reproduction/fake market for Japanese swords. Yes, it is an eBay purchase and no, I did not buy it from China. The previous owner spray painted the saya and the tsuka black at some point in history. I have cleaned the saya up to it's original color using non-acetone based nail polish remover and I am going to re-wrap the tsuka. On the bright side, I am enjoying the whole polishing and restoration experience. Wouldn't dream of doing it with a nagasa of value. I have a lot of respect for the effort and training professional polishers go through. I'm working with six stones of varying grit level and have really focused on maintaining sword geometry, particularly the shinogiji. It's a lot of work, but oddly enough, the whole polsihing process it almost like meditating. You focus on the sound of the blade against the stone, the feel of the blade against the stone and doing everything in small steps. Again, thank you for all of your effort. I will wait for Random to chime in with his or her feedback on the translation. Before I hop onto the NMZ board, I plan to post this thread in the Japanese section of the SBG board to solicit feedback. Cheers, Toby
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2010 18:20:02 GMT
Got it! I give all the credit to Stephen C. over on NMB for helping with this.
[Period][Years in the period][Nen][Number of the Month][Gatsu]
昭和二十年二月
Showa ni ju nen ni gatsu.
February, 1945
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Post by tajima on Jan 4, 2010 23:39:58 GMT
Nice work. I'm glad I was wrong, I was just a bit iffy about it - it just screams antiqued.
Stephen is a great guy, so it's nice to have a good idea. Koichi-san over there is probably the smartest translator I have met.
Now get to work!
Thanks, -Brett
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2010 4:00:54 GMT
No worries, Brett. I respect your opinion and welcome all opinions. I am also one to share what I learn with others so that we can all broaden our knowledge.
Thanks again for all of your help.
Cheers,
Toby
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