Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2010 22:51:30 GMT
After seeing two examples from two different manufacturers, I think this would be beneficial.
I have no historical backing for this, but I am coming from the Christian ethics side of it, and so I am pretty sure this is correct. When putting a cross, having one that has the bottom side longer than the others is usually a bad idea, because when you wield the sword then it becomes an inverted cross, which is a satanic symbol, aka something a Christian, pious, knight would not want to have in his sword while purging the world of evil.
In light of this, it would probably be a good idea to only use the Greek cross which is the same as a (+), the German cross, the Maltese cross, the Jerusalem cross, the Celtic cross, and quite a few others (just google heraldic crosses)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2010 23:42:53 GMT
A point worth mention would be that the inverted cross was not originally considered a satanic symbol until contemporary usage by occultists after the 1930s. The inverted cross was originally used as the sign of the martyrdom of St. Peter; a Christian symbol which the Vatican still uses today that dates back to the 2nd century.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 0:02:01 GMT
A point worth mention would be that the inverted cross was not originally considered a satanic symbol until contemporary usage by occultists after the 1930s. The inverted cross was originally used as the sign of the martyrdom of St. Peter; a Christian symbol which the Vatican still uses today that dates back to the 2nd century. true, however, for some reason, the X was usually associated with him than the inverted cross. You do make a good point and I don't know if you have any examples of original swords that have such a symbol on them. I am intrigued...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 0:08:07 GMT
X shouldn't be associated with St. Peter. St. Andrew was crucified on an X cross and it's associated with him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 0:28:13 GMT
X shouldn't be associated with St. Peter. St. Andrew was crucified on an X cross and it's associated with him. true, but sadly... someone mixed the brothers up at some point in history and this happened...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 0:35:14 GMT
As far as swords with the Latin Cross on them (which would be inverted if the sword was drawn), I don't have a historical example to reflect upon. I only know that the Latin Cross would not have been viewed as being satanic if held inverted on a weapon.
The Latin Cross has been in use since before the 2nd century; it was derived from Lord's Sign; the tracing of a cross on one's body as a talisman against evil. Earlier symbology would have been the Chi-Rho cross (you mentioned it; made of the Greek characters P and X, and later, just the X of St. Andrew) and the Ichthys (fish) symbol. So, the Latin Cross has been around for some time, somewhat longer than some of the others that you mentioned.
It's also worth mentioning that the Latin Cross and a Crucifix are very different things. The Crucifix (which bears the body of Christ) was very bad if inverted, because it then becomes the symbol of the anti-Christ. Sometimes people mix the two up incorrectly.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 0:42:04 GMT
And just to throw this in here, the Norse hilt/pommel looks like a Thors Hammer.......SanMarc.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 0:43:26 GMT
I agree, only the Greek cross (+) is not to be confused with the "XP" sign, which in fact is not a cross, but the greek letters "H" and "R" combined, a symbol for Christ (quite literarily) and how, to this day, any icon depicting Christ is marked (usually as IC XC, but XP is present as well) but yes, the "XP" sign would look quite bad inverted, mainly why Romans/Byzantines had it in their shields as supposed to their swords (and also because it was thought to protect you, and you don't exactly aim to protect your enemy...)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 0:43:53 GMT
It would make sense, sort of. Sheathed the sword can only do peace, hence the proper side up, unsheathed the sword kills, a mortal sin, hence the inverted cross.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 0:46:44 GMT
It would make sense, sort of. Sheathed the sword can only do peace, hence the proper side up, unsheathed the sword kills, a mortal sin, hence the inverted cross. well... that is true unless you are killing a heartless heathen, or a heretic, or anyone condemned to die by the church, or if it was done in battle, where you would almost always fight against the enemies of God, or if it was done to protect your own life against someone who was probably ordered by a demon to kill you, or for many other reasons... gotta love medieval rules also, killing and committing murder are not the same thing...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 0:52:31 GMT
It would make sense, sort of. Sheathed the sword can only do peace, hence the proper side up, unsheathed the sword kills, a mortal sin, hence the inverted cross. well... that is true unless you are killing a heartless heathen, or a heretic, or anyone condemned to die by the church, or if it was done in battle, where you would almost always fight against the enemies of God, or if it was done to protect your own life against someone who was probably ordered by a demon to kill you, or for many other reasons... gotta love medieval rules also, killing and committing murder are not the same thing... And there, again using religion as a means to an end.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 0:59:31 GMT
you only have to look at medieval history to verify that... any two paragraphs of it...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 1:37:37 GMT
It is also important to note that a cruciform crusader's sword itself was designed to represent the cross.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 1:57:37 GMT
It is also important to note that a cruciform crusader's sword itself was designed to represent the cross. Nonsensical and coincidence at best. There was never a specifically designed sword for crusaders or the Templars.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 2:02:54 GMT
No, there was no specifically designed sword. But common finds represent a cruciform design.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 2:49:23 GMT
No, there was no specifically designed sword. But common finds represent a cruciform design. Which is entirely coincidental to what is now sometimes referred to as a cruciform hilt. There is no basis of Christianity in the function of such a hilt other than some using it in art and some philosophies. It was not a Christian ideal to create the simple hilt.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 2:50:08 GMT
No, there was no specifically designed sword. But common finds represent a cruciform design. swords in general were designed to resemble the cross up to a degree, because they were not only tools to kill, they were religious items, knights/swordsmen would usually kneel in front of their swords and use them as a cross to pray before battle.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 3:14:57 GMT
I think the coincidence that a sword is designed to look like a cross is just that, religion using whatever they can to further an agenda. "Oh, it's shaped like a cross, it does the holy work!", They were not designed to look like a cross, they happen to look like a cross.
Swords are designed to do what they do no aspect of them is frivolous, unless they are for dress.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 3:17:24 GMT
I think the coincidence that a sword is designed to look like a cross is just that, religion using whatever they can to further an agenda. "Oh, it's shaped like a cross, it does the holy work!", They were not designed to look like a cross, they happen to look like a cross. Swords are designed to do what they do no aspect of them is frivolous, unless they are for dress. careful with your phrasing... it's not religion that has an agenda, but people with an agenda who use religion...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 3:25:04 GMT
No, there was no specifically designed sword. But common finds represent a cruciform design. Or a Thors hammer on the singel hand jobs....SanMarc.
|
|