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Post by Kilted Cossack on Jan 3, 2010 3:09:15 GMT
I prefer my swords to be flung at me, wholly formed, ex nihilo, by the Lady of the Lake.
But hey. That's just how I roll.
Edited to add: In all honesty, how about I answer the question? I'm looking for the sword experience, the weight and the balance. Brass? Iron? Steel? I'm a nugget and a slugget and a FNG (fairly! new guy) and a n00b, and I like the way it feels to have a good sword in my hand. I'm at the stage where a good sword can still be a good sword if it's got a plastic handle and a fiberglass core sheath and is held together with hex nuts. Maybe I'll outgrow any or all of those things, maybe I'll stay on the "feel in the hand" side of the equation. I don't know. I'm glad we've got pounders and grounders out there making a wide variety of historical or historically plausible swords I can afford to buy, play with (said in context, with the recognition that these are deadly weapons) and Walter-Mitty with.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 3:17:34 GMT
Is it sharp? Can I cut bottles, tatami, and the occasional small cousin with it? Then I prefer it.... Seriously, though, I don't condone the disciplining of annoying relatives with sharp steel. That's what blunts are for
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 3:19:00 GMT
BB there is also material restrictions, would take alot of plate steel to cut out a scimitar with 4 inches of curvature hehe. You can tell the difference sometimes by the sword if it is ground fits neatly into common barstock sizes and widths hehe.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jan 3, 2010 4:01:18 GMT
Thats what Tajima is for, All those offcuts. ;D It is frustrating though. For me to have just the forte of a type XV (for eg.) at 55mm wide I have to cut it all from 70mm.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 4:02:54 GMT
I am thrilled I have a supply of 1077 in 3 1/4" inches wide
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Post by johnlundemo1 on Jan 3, 2010 4:32:02 GMT
Personally when I do curved blades I grind the edge bevel and spine and distal taper from a straight bar then heat forge the curve into the blade. With clay coated and water quenched blades (Japanese styled,) I quench them when straight and the water makes the blade curve. Seems like kinda a waist of steel to profile cut a curved sword from a wide bar. Either way I agree with Sam that all swords are forged, when they are heat treated that is. If the heat treat and temper is done excellent then the performance is pretty close between hammered and ground. I agree with Brendan as well that some of the carbon loss from hammering steel that has been reheated several times can be an issue, may be not so much if forged in coal, which doesn't remove as much carbon as a propane forge can. A oxygen starved gas forge takes less carbon out as well and the normallizing is a must. Whatever method you choose a sword to be made in, choose the smith first and trust him to know what's going on with the steels and techniques.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Jan 3, 2010 16:01:05 GMT
The only "downside" to grinding blades (to me anyway) is that you're potentially wasting a lot of steel. Hey Sam, if there are material restrictions, I haven't run into them yet. Have you seen my two sets of POP blades? There's very little leftover from those as well. Still getting little knives out of the small off cuts With the internet and shipping you can get a plate 4 foot by 6 foot of 1075 from 1/8" through 3/8" thick. And you can have it cut at any 1/4" increment for width. Here in the states anyway. It is a shame to grind away all that perfectly good steel though. That makes the restriction more monetary than material. It would be cheaper in materials to buy a smaller piece and forge it out than have a much larger piece than you need shipped to you and cut the shape out. It would be handy to add at least some forging in with the grinding for blades like Brendan mentioned where you'd be grinding away a lot of taper instead of drawing the metal out.
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Post by Dave(utilityslave) on Jan 3, 2010 18:31:37 GMT
How cool is it that we have the kind of people we do not only reading or posts but weighing in on discussions to our benefit. As an example just look at the last four posters/members on this thread. It may be routine here but it sometimes gives me pause. I really appreciate this forum.
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Post by sparky on Jan 3, 2010 18:37:45 GMT
Shaken not stirred. Just kidding. Now I don't care, just like them to be sharp and pointy! A year and a little bit ago I'd have said pounded because that's better! Now I think I know better.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2010 23:10:00 GMT
If I could have the same sword for the same price, then I would obviously choose hammered, for historical reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2010 20:17:45 GMT
What matters to me is the final product, I want a good sword that is well balanced and well tempered, I’m not overly concerned about how exactly it has been produced. Particularly if we a talking about the price range for this forum.
I don’t really know all the arguments for and against forging versus stock removal, but given that Albion, and Tinker both use stock removal it can’t be all bad.
I suppose if all other things were equal (quality and price) and the only difference was pounded or ground, then I would go with the pounded sword. But that’s more about snobbery for historical accuracy then any rational thought process.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2010 0:27:26 GMT
I own both...I have to say for aesthetics, I like the hand hammered look of a forged blade, but I can't say I don't appreciate the uniform 'cleanliness' of the lines of a stock-removal type piece. I went with either.
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Post by johnlundemo1 on Jan 5, 2010 4:02:24 GMT
Many antient forges were discovered that have many grinding wheels, some run by water wheels and pullies. So stock removal has been done even in olden days. Plus all sword must be ground and polished even after forging.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2010 4:17:37 GMT
Many antient forges were discovered that have many grinding wheels, some run by water wheels and pullies. So stock removal has been done even in olden days. Plus all sword must be ground and polished even after forging. Thank you John, and that means they tride to get them as perfect as they could, so you couldnt see the forging marks.....Sanmarc.
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Post by djhere on Jan 5, 2010 13:58:06 GMT
I have to agree with the general consensus here-as long as it is sharp,finished and kills bottles and mats Im pretty happy.But I do agree with Eruialsal-if two identical swords were put on a table in front of me and one was ground and the ohter puonded-Id choose the pounded just because of the traditional(in my mind )connection.Something about the image of a man swinging a hammer and sparks flying is (dareIsay)romantic!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2010 15:28:49 GMT
i like the way you both roll with that.
really though, with todays methods of milling/founding processes, aka making steel... there is a lot to be said for the stock removal side of things. Brenno does his swords by stock removal, and from what i have heard and seen in vids, they are quite good. Some one said above that Tinker's work is based on stock removal, i own one, and if that is by stock removal, then i say alright . because it is an outstanding blade.
while there is a bit to be stated for the side of traditional methods, i say if you want a sword and dont have thousands of bucks to spend for it, get the ground, but make sure it is from a good line. of course you can get a traditionally forged blade that wasnt worked or heat treated correctly and have a pile of pig iron. (exaggerate) so the best decision is based on the best sword for what money you are spending from the best manufacturer possible in your means. you want more pay more. i have been reading about the SBG katana, and the pay more get more doesnt seem to apply. decent price for outstanding sword seems to apply.
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