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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2009 16:11:32 GMT
You forgot to mention that a mace also crushes helmets (and skulls) and bones through plate armor. Yes, it's certainly not fun to be hit with one... hell, I almost went down from being hit in the head with larp mace... it was pretty soft but had quite a lot of omph.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2009 16:11:36 GMT
I gotta jump in here on this argument. I have to say that a Warhammer is less happy then a mace. The force is concentrated on a smaller area in the head if it's a claw-face. If it's not, then flip it over so you hit with the pick, and sweet jesus... Not a happy thing. Plus, warhammers can be made with metal shafts. But then, I tend to favor lighter weapons with hard hitting power, so Warhammer is (of course) going to be my preference.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2009 18:38:33 GMT
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Post by sparky on Dec 19, 2009 23:50:28 GMT
I had read somewhere that a mace or war hammer were particularly devastating to a man in armor because the impact force could rupture internal organs. That plate armor transfered the blow "into" the body, where a sword would glance off of the same armor.
Can't remember where I read it and I'm not saying it's fact, just putting it out there. Though it make sense to me.
Man I want a war hammer! ;D
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Post by genocideseth on Dec 19, 2009 23:57:44 GMT
Just can't help yourself, can you? -Yoda voice- Restraint he has not..!
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Dec 20, 2009 17:11:30 GMT
yeah I don't see how plate armor could make it WORSE or transfer the impact INTO the person beneath. no matter what a plate is going to spread the force out the only force that will go directly in is any that can dent, cave-in, or rupture the armor in a specific location and then you'll only get what is left over that the armor didn't absorb. that can still be a considerable amount of force and I would think that it is POSSIBLE to rupture internal organs through plate armo but it would have to be a mighty blow indeed.
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Post by sparky on Dec 20, 2009 18:39:44 GMT
So I go to wikipedia and find... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armourThe evolution of the 14th century plate armour also triggered the development of various polearms. They were designed to deliver a strong impact and concentrate energy on a small area and cause damage through the plate. Maces, war hammers and the hammer-heads of pollaxes (poleaxes) were used to inflict blunt trauma through armour. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_hammerWar hammers, especially when mounted on a pole, by impact alone, could damage without penetrating the armour. In particular, they transmitted an impact through even the thickest helmet and skull to damage the brain against its own skull. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(club)Solid metal maces and war hammers proved able to inflict damage on well armoured knights, as the force of a blow from a mace is large enough to cause damage without penetrating the armour. I included the links cause I found them to be interesting. It probably was the reference to a blow to the helmet that i was recalling.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Dec 20, 2009 22:08:56 GMT
Absolutely true! I was speaking specifically to the idea that a plate somehow made the damage worse which would not be true. it would reduce the damage no matter what but the thing was that those pole weapons and maces, etc. would do so much damage and had so much impact there was no way to dissipate enough to prevent damage entirely. I'm sure many an armored knight fell to whiplash-like symptoms as well as concusion and broken bones.
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Post by sparky on Dec 20, 2009 22:38:19 GMT
Yeah I was actually agreeing with you on this Tom. My very poor memory put head strike damage to all armor damage. Thinking about it I'd rather hit my thumb with a hammer while wearing a set of gauntlets! ;D
Ah the evolution of a thread!
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Dec 20, 2009 23:49:57 GMT
I hear you sparky but wouldn't you really rather not hit your thumb at all? gauntlet or no gauntlet that still sounds bad.
in fact this same percussive damage theory is the idea behind how the type XIII and it variants such as the SINGLE HANDED XIIIb intend to defeat armor; not be penetrating it but by slamming you so hard you get hurt anyway. and if you are unlucky enough to not have the sort of heavy armor that can stop a blade then you just plain-old get cut in half. win-win for the guy with the XIIIb. or that's the idea anyway. this is why the type XIIIb is my vote for most potent single hander: it is designed to be the unstoppable force.
oh and look, we are back on topic!
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