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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 19:30:38 GMT
This is something that I've been curious about for awhile. I have a vague idea, but maybe someone can help me out. I know that generally a broader blade is better for cutting, but how exactly does that work? For instance, I've heard the Hanwei Practical XL is dynamite at cutting heavy targets, mainly because of its width, while the blade itself is actually on the lighter side, compared to other katana. Is it all about mass distribution? I know a thinner blade will project a more acute angle toward the target, making for a better cutting edge, but a sword can't be too light; everyone knows a rapier isn't a cutter. Is the width of a blade simply a byproduct of a compromise between edge thickness and weight? A case of "the weight has to go somewhere, so let's just flatten it out", as it were? Enlighten me!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 20:35:26 GMT
I am probs wrong, but my guess is that very "slim" blades are better for stabbing because they are stiffer and mass is more concentrated toward the middle. in the case of a broader blade, since there is more pass from side to side, it can cut better. This is my theory, but in the case of the gladius, which was mostly used for stabbing, is broad...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 20:46:49 GMT
George has the gist of it. It's a question of mass distribution.
More mass means a more powerful cut, while a thinner blade means a finer cut. Hence why cutting oriented swords are wider and flatter then stabbing oriented swords.
Of course, this is oversimpliflying the matter, since you have to take stuff like edge geometry into consideration as well.
Plus, having a sword with a broad base is also a way to control the handling of the sword through tapering.
That said, I personally have a clear tendency to design swords with blades no more then 4 cm wide at the hilt, usually less - I've never really seen any reason to make them broader then that, which is why most medieval European swords strike me as rather big.
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Dec 5, 2009 21:35:33 GMT
...in the case of the gladius, which was mostly used for stabbing, is broad... The Gladius was purposely designed to create a large, nasty wound channel when used to stab. The wider blade did actually hinder the stabbing ability a slight bit, but this was more than made up for by other aspects of the sword's design, such as the oh-so-pointy acute tip. -Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 23:17:51 GMT
As long as the gladius was sharp I doubt that the width would have impaired its stabbing ability much, with the exception of armor. As long as the opponent was unarmored, a wider blade would be preferred for the extra damage a thrust would have inflicted. That's how I view it, at least.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 0:31:54 GMT
It's actually quite simple... More weight means more power in the cut. Burt thick blades are not good because they meet more resistance when passing through target. Wide blades have the weight needed without being too thick and because of that they cut well.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Dec 6, 2009 2:54:46 GMT
There is a really good article about it somewhere. I think it's on the sticky's on SFI.
Shootermike has on a couple of occasions pointed out that he found that a nice broad blade has a wing effect that will self align going into the cut if he doesn't hold the grip too tight.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Dec 6, 2009 2:55:54 GMT
Ok, this is courtesy of Tinker Pearce and can be found along with several really cool sticky's here: www.swordforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=132I think the 'sectional density', or 'mass piled up behind the cutting edge' at the point of impact is an interesting theory.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 12:11:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2009 19:39:29 GMT
Good ones, Brenno and Luka.
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Brett Whinnen
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Post by Brett Whinnen on Dec 9, 2009 20:39:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2009 21:43:12 GMT
I look at it like this,
A blade needs to have a certain amount of "meat" to be a good cutter. In this case "good cutter" is referring to a swords ability to stand up to medium/heavy use.
A blade tends to cut through targets better when its thinner because the thinner profile displaces less target material on its way through the cut.
However, making a blade thinner can sacrifice some of its strength. The blade is thinner, and thus travels through its target easier, but that missing "meat" makes it weaker.
Also, the thinner blade would not be as heavy, and would require a more forceful swing to complete the cut. While lighter and more agile the overall endurance suffers.
So,... Wider blades are kinda like the best of both worlds imo.
You can have the skinnier profile blade without sacrificing the "meat" that gives the sword its strength. Your simply transferring that material from the thickness of the blades profile to the width of the blade itself. You have basically the same amount of steel and close to the same weight, but a thinner profile.
There is the argument that considering the wider blade takes longer to get through the target that it is no different than a thick blade which passes through faster but has to displace more material to get through that there is really little difference. But, it my personal experience i have found the wider+thinner combo to be a real sweet setup!
That's my 2 cents on it anyway... ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2009 21:46:47 GMT
In my opinion, the more niku, the better. I dont want a skinny blade to break on targets, I want it to take some hits
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Post by sicheah on Dec 9, 2009 21:49:41 GMT
In my opinion, the more niku, the better. I dont want a skinny blade to break on targets, I want it to take some hits Well... there is a great article by Keith Larman on sword niku (meatiness). Has been posted in couple of sbg thread, still a good read: www.bugei.com/niku.html
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