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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 23:43:56 GMT
Howdy Y'all. Before I get to the rest of my post, I just want to thank Paul and all you fabulous folks for all the info that can be found via SBG and the forums. I'm really new to the world of Battle-Ready weapons and I feel a tenth as lost after spending some hours here educating myself. This place is like the Consumer's Digest of Swords.  SBG Forum says, "No Biggie, Newb!"  A bit about why I'm writing this:I'm indecisive. I can't pick something unless a) it's on impulse, b) the wife picks for me, c) I stress and study over something for a long while until I've turned over every rock trying to figure all the angles. Mrs. "andthelions" has graciously agreed to allow me $500 out of my own Christmas Bonus for new Ren Garb and/or a Sword. Wanting to show up to the next Fair wearing more than just a sword, I've got to stay on a budget. I also am trying to decide between garbing as a Viking or an English knight of the Third Crusade era (1090). (Advice on this, too is welcome!)SBG Forum says, "Get To the Point!" OK, with that in mind (and a B.S. in Economics), my first thought was to try to develop a formula via a spreadsheet. This would let me compare the various makes of sword on an apples to apples basis. A is for Albion -->  <-- O is for SLO. SBG Forum says, "Spreadsheet? Formula? I smell a NERD!" I say, "It takes one to know one, NERD!" Anyway, I've transferred the results up to a Google Documents Spreadsheet that you can refer to here: I can go into the nuts and bolts of how I put the Equation together, but the basic parts it gives points for are: - How much of my $500 is that sword going to eat up?(cheaper is gooder)
- 1-5 points based on the overall reviews here on SBG
- A small boost for being lighter than 3.5 lbs. (lighter the better)
- Value based on Grip length, a maximum of 1 point for grip 5"+
- Scabbard quality on a scale of 1 to 5. (This part was subjective by me. No scabbard was a 0. Christian Fletcher was a 4.5)
Two Questions: - Those of you who dig Excel and math, does this seem useful or is this too subjective for something like a sword?
- More importantly, are there any other Viking-style or Pre-Third Crusade Styled swords I didn't put on my list that you think I should?
Please understand that I know this score wouldn't work for someone else right out of the box. I have one-time deals & current Christmas discounts on there. Most people wouldn't care about grip length; some might not care about weight or scabbard quality. Some may have a smaller or bigger budget in mind. Your feedback, exaltations, Smiting, etc. are welcome. d  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 0:13:27 GMT
Daniel, I work as a purchasing agent and quoter for a networking company (I know, Nerd! ;D ) Spreadsheets are Good! ;D but I don't envy the setup time of that application ahead of you! As far as how much to spend on the sword, I recommend you figure out what type of sword you want, then take that $500.00, look under the sofa cushions, in and under the car seats, find things in the house that you don't use or can live without, pawn them, spend it all on the highest-end sword of the type you want, and worry about the ren clothing later Take it from a guy who owns a lot of SLO's and low end swords, the more you spend on the sword now, the happier you will be later This from a guy that owns hundreds of blades and has only been stopped from buying more by an avalanche of medical bills |
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Post by enkidu on Dec 3, 2009 0:18:07 GMT
My god.... I did the same thing but i never spoke about it, even my wife dont know about it, its hidden in my job's computer under a generic file name... i though i was alone ! Thank you !
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 1:17:15 GMT
This could be a good idea. However, note that there's different types of swords: "beaters," which tend to be heavy and built for durability and cutting; performance swords, which are historically accurate in handling and behave as a sword of its type should, but may lack aesthetic polish, and high-end, which are performance swords with a high level of aesthetic polish and refinement.
Gen2 and DSA make mostly beaters (though the new DSA offerings are less beefy,) VA has some performance stuff, with its signature line being performance with features usually found on higher-end swords, and Angus Trim swords are mid-level performance. High-end productions are Arms & Armor or Albion swords, and beyond that you have custom swords.
If you are looking for a performance sword in your range, I'd go for a VA practical longsword or the Kriegschwert. Consensus on the board tends to be that the VA practical is one of the best values, if not the best, in the sub-300 range.
If you are willing to be patient, I'd wait and keep an eye on the classifieds here, on myarmoury.com, and on swordforum.com. A good general guide is that 75% of original value is good for a sword in near-new condition, though sometimes you can find true bargains if you keep an eye open and jump quickly. Just make sure not to buy on impulse. Be sure to ask questions of the seller: whether the sword was used for cutting (and how much,) what flaws it has, and how it would be shipped. Ideally I'd work out something with the seller to have it sent in a rifle case (which are $30,) which would ensure safe shipment.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 4:14:11 GMT
I don't envy the setup time of that application ahead of you! It didn't take that long. I've been working on it a bit at a time while reading at work and at home. My wife is away on Business for three weeks and construction biz is always slow in December, so I've been reading about swords, the Crusades and Viking culture for 10-12 hours a day for a week. My god.... I did the same thing but i never spoke about it, even my wife dont know about it, its hidden in my job's computer under a generic file name... i though i was alone ! Thank you ! Thanks for admitting your secret shame! I work in construction. Hopefully no one will think High Carbon Steel Pricing Comparison.xlsx looks conspicuous.  If you are willing to be patient, I'd wait and keep an eye on the classifieds here, on myarmoury.com, and on swordforum.com. A good general guide is that 75% of original value is good for a sword in near-new condition, though sometimes you can find true bargains if you keep an eye open and jump quickly. Just make sure not to buy on impulse. Sounds like good advice. Thanks! Oh, those of you who look at the spreadsheet, please make sure to suggest swords I might not have added to it! |
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Post by enkidu on Dec 3, 2009 13:55:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 15:45:42 GMT
Im voting the hedemark
I know Ive been leaning towards getting it
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Dec 3, 2009 16:00:21 GMT
Hmm with DSA taking the top three places I think there's a flaw in there somewhere, lol
Get the Hedemark, or Taistelu Impi...
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Post by ShooterMike on Dec 3, 2009 16:19:15 GMT
DSA being at the top indicates your very price-driven, and not much emphasis on the performance and handling end, i.e. does it handle like a sharp sword in period would have. The swords you've rated at the top are shorter in the blade than typical swords of their type would have been, and are quite a bit heavier. Just a few random observations...
In any case, a suggestion would be to settle the Viking vs. Crusader question as your first priority. Don't let the sword choice dictate your persona. Maybe even buy some of the major pieces of the outfit first. Then see what's left for a sword. (I know, that sounds like blasphemy, especially coming from me who doesn't even own any garb)
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Dec 3, 2009 16:24:08 GMT
Nice hint, Brenno. A good one, though! I would like to mention that almost all of those swords can be found at a lower price. Would you mind PMing me with a list of the swords you're interested in, and the best price you've found for them?  I'm pretty sure that I can find better than the ones listed on all but a few discounted DSA's... And I'd put limited time deals like SanMarc's DSA viking higher than ones that'll stick around, like the current #1. Not to mention that you put the price point of the 10th C. at $140, but didn't give it credit for being souped up and customized. Between that and it's lower weight, it seems to me like the SanMArc 10th C. should be in #1, but maybe I'm crazy.  HTH, Slayer |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 18:07:39 GMT
Hmm with DSA taking the top three places I think there's a flaw in there somewhere, lol Get the Hedemark, or Taistelu Impi... I see what you did there, Brenno. Sorry, your admittedly wonderful work (at $1,287.55 USD) is $787 USD more than my entire budget. DSA being at the top indicates your very price-driven, and not much emphasis on the performance and handling end As always, you're spot on, ShooterMike. I feel like, to some extent, this also exposes a flaw in SBG's 1 to 5 star rating system. The DSAs are artificially high because Paul & Jason Woodard always give them 5 out of 5, regardless of the issues you mentioned. Add to this crazy discounts on the Clearance and Used DSA models at this moment (all short term offers.) At their normal market values, they'd be in the low teens on the rankings. And I'd put limited time deals like SanMarc's DSA viking higher than ones that'll stick around, like the current #1. Not to mention that you put the price point of the 10th C. at $140, but didn't give it credit for being souped up and customized. SanMarc's is higher than the normal one for it's lower price and better scabbard, but lost points for the shorter grip. Then net effect is that it still jumped 5 places. Compare San Marc's (#2) to the normal (#7). I'm going to try to sell my Stratocaster this weekend. If I get a good sum of money for it, I'll likely buy the Hedemark. If I can't get much for it, I'll be evaluating SanMarc & Slayer's deal vs. the Gen2 River Witham. |
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Dec 3, 2009 18:51:19 GMT
Ah! Sorry, I missed that... The hedemark is the way to go if you can, but I havn't heard much about the Gen2 so I can't help there. Let us know how you go! ;D -Slayer |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 20:43:40 GMT
I think figuring out which persona speaks to you most is the first order of business as this will dictate the sword and assorted armor you build for your kit. I went the Templar route as I am a student of the Crusades, the 3rd in particular.
I'm still shopping for a coif to match my haubergeon; but since I'm 11th-12th Century in terms of armor, my kit is basically complete. I need a new surcoat tho...got caught in the rain and damned if the cross didn't bleed out on me. Think it was a message of sorts? I dunno.
Part of the fun in assembling a kit is in the assembly part, finding the bits you need and putting it all together and then making your debut at whatever event you plan on. I've gone through a number of iterations over the years so be prepared to have your appetites whetted for more and better. It is the nature of the beast.
Once you've chosen your persona and I have to admit, going Viking would be more cost-effective as you'd be wearing less in the way of armor, and more in the way of clothing (hides, leather, that sort of thing) but it wouldn't be a huge difference as hides and leather can be pretty costly too, especially if you're going for a semi- to fully authentic look.
You might also decide to spend the money on a good blade now and piecemeal the kit over the next few months; you never know what deals you may find. What're you looking at in terms of armor and clothing?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 21:20:20 GMT
Once you've chosen your persona and I have to admit, going Viking would be more cost-effective as you'd be wearing less in the way of armor, and more in the way of clothing (hides, leather, that sort of thing) but it wouldn't be a huge difference as hides and leather can be pretty costly too, especially if you're going for a semi- to fully authentic look. You might also decide to spend the money on a good blade now and piecemeal the kit over the next few months; you never know what deals you may find. What're you looking at in terms of armor and clothing? Sent a PM. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 23:16:56 GMT
I can see a Crusader or Viking using Excel to decide this...
As the late Bruce Lee said, "Don't think! Feel!"
You are making it much more difficult than it should be. First; read detailed reviews by reliable, experienced reviewers. Then, get your hands on some of the swords on your list. You are focusing on many things that you should not even be considering in this decision, and ignorning the most important part of all: How does the weapon feel to you?
Expand your knowledge and get your hands on some swords. Then answer will then be quite clear, just as it would have been if you were looking at swords one the blacksmith's table eight hundred years ago.
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Post by enkidu on Dec 4, 2009 0:14:07 GMT
Odin is right, if you can get your hand on some swords it will speak to you a thousand times more than any charts you can make |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2009 9:23:22 GMT
Excel for a sword evaluation? Now why didnt I think of that? My wife is terrible with numbers and something like this could be just what I need come time for my next buy...anyway, I would agree that the handling cant be undervalued when it comes to your own blade (provided you plan to use it and not just wear it). I probably would have adjusted the point values based less on price and more on weight/pob and my own personal evaluations based on others reviews, reading between the lines as it were. Then after weeks of intense research I would have scrapped the whole thing, spent every last dime and more on a blade I liked on a whim and come up with a creative story about why I was a ( insert persona here) with only undertrousers on for the fair.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2009 17:10:40 GMT
Odin is right, if you can get your hand on some swords it will speak to you a thousand times more than any charts you can make Understandable advice. In fact, holding the River Witham by Gen2 is what got me really looking at it to begin with. Problem is, I don't know of anyone even remotely local to the Houston area that has a Hedemark for me to look at in person. What am I going to do, call Sonny in Grapevine and ask him to drive 4 hours down here just to sell me one of his cheaper models? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2009 17:52:58 GMT
No, what he's saying is to do like most everyone else on here- you're going to have to acquire one and try it out in-hand. All the stats and videos in the world won't help when it comes down to personal choice, you have to work that out for yourself.
Then you'll start noticing other forumites who exhibit similar tastes and hob nobbing is all the fun here, so go for it.
Plus, with the Classifieds section here, if you don't like it, someone else probably will and be willing to buy it from you. I've had a number of transactions with different forumites on here and the one thing that they all have in common was that they were painless and friendly overall.
You can't go wrong, man...pick a sword, buy it, when it arrives, put it through its paces, do some hands-on research if you will and then compare your initial with your current evaluations of this sword. Is it the one for you? It might be, right at that moment, until something else strikes your fancy, or this might be THE one for you. I've yet to see that happen, but it COULD.
Bottom line is, half the fun is in the acquisition, the other half is in selling it to someone else who will enjoy it, while you squirrel funds away for a new and different sword. Its a cycle, but it is one I find ultimately enjoyable. It is the waiting that'll get to you, though. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 0:51:52 GMT
I've decided to go with the Hedemark. I sold my Stratocaster today for $200, so now I should have enough budget to get the Hedemark and garb myself well. |
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I'm pretty sure that I can find better than the ones listed on all but a few discounted DSA's...
