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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 5:53:22 GMT
Total newbie question, and I hope I'm not asking the obvious. All edged weapons should be treated with respect, but are some more dangerous to wield than others?
One hand vs. Two handed: my guess is 2 handed is safer because you can't cut the off hand. Short vs. Long: a short, light blade is easier to control single vs. double edge: I'd be extra careful with a double edged sword
Based on this, something like a chisa katana would be least dangerous to the cutter, while a bastard sword wielded single hand would demand the most care. Agree/disagree?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 6:17:26 GMT
A lot depends on how you are using the sword. Many serious wounds have been inflicted by single edge Katanas, drawing or sheathing. As for length, one man here half severed his calf with a short sword, they can get into places they shouldn't before you know it. You can catch yourself in the head practicing some long sword tech........I guess my opinion is there is a way to hurt yourself or others with any type of blade some injuries more likely with one type other injuries more likely......
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 6:23:09 GMT
any blade used in inappropriately will cause you injury and all swords have just as much chance to damage you as any other sword. Although some of those freaky chinese creations look like hell in a hand basket to use.
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Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Nov 22, 2009 6:37:05 GMT
dude there is no such animal as a safe sword ..... traing is what keeps the user safe whatch some of the videos here and on youtube and practise with a wooden sword or boken till you can know where your swing will stop and get some training do dry cutts and train with others who know about blades sca covers every thing from the roman empire clear up to the late rennasance (pre-colonial) they have work shops fight groups and just a bunch decent people who know weapons
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 9:12:58 GMT
To be blunt the sword is not the un-safe thing it is the person holding it and their level of experience. Join a dojo or other similar place to train and you will be ok. If you are into Katana then do Iaido as it will teach you the right way to handle the sword and how to care for it and how to respect it. Oh and never do kata with a shinken unless you have been training for some time as I have seen even experienced people cut themselves. So in short “Train blunt and survive your first sharp” as they say.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 12:45:01 GMT
I don't think that one kind of sword is necessary more dangerous then another kind, the real danger is human error and carelessness. I don't think you need to undertaking years of training before handling a sword, but you do need to take a common sesne approach. somewhere on here there is a good thread about sword safety which is worth reading for any first time sword owner.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 15:12:02 GMT
this is very anecdotal, but I've heard of more injury with katanas than any other type of weapon.
It depends a lot on the user, and on what usage you are doing. Iaodo (fast draw) exercises are *very* dangerous if done improperly.
It's a pretty good idea to start with a blunt weapon. They handle the same, but are more forgiving of mistakes.
Ancalagon
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 15:48:23 GMT
this is very anecdotal, but I've heard of more injury with katanas than any other type of weapon. It depends a lot on the user, and on what usage you are doing. Iaodo (fast draw) exercises are *very* dangerous if done improperly. It's a pretty good idea to start with a blunt weapon. They handle the same, but are more forgiving of mistakes. Ancalagon yea, it's easier to survive a big bruise than half your leg gone... and besides, imagine explaining that in a hospital "So yea, I cut my leg off with a sword while practicing" that would make you look like the a-hole of the century (no offense to all those who have been cut deeply while practicing, this is more directed toward those who cut their limbs off)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 15:55:37 GMT
every one here is giving good advise. the sword when sheathed and stored is not dangerous. it is when a human begins to handle it that danger is eminent. as said by the others, nothing will replace training. i agree with the idea of a blunt being good to practice with. a woody just doesnt seem to handle like a real sword. there was a mention regarding katana accidents being more prevalent. there is a reason. one is that the popularity of katana has more of them out there. two is that drawing and sheathing is slightly different. but the same type of accidents occur in all swords. the best thing if you cannot find an instructor or group, owuld be to get a friend that has been trained to help you. also there are plenty of good videos. i would definitely recommend those from trusted sites and martial artist. try to avoid your average you tube video. there are some decent ones there, but also alot of quacks. sbg is full of posts about seeing some goof ball on youtube do a vid and how watching that video could create havoc to some untrained person trying to perform what they have seen. sbg vids here and on youtube i would recommend. at least if the person makes a mistake they are adult enough to say i made a mistake.
the greatest thing that you can do with your sword in safety is remember that it is a real live weapon. it can be a friend in battle or your own worst enemy when handled wrong. as someone already stated, dry cuts (practicing the movements without full force) also do not start performing movements at any speed until you have well practiced them. slow motion also allows your muscles to get used to the weight and balance. hope this helps.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 16:00:45 GMT
Thanks for your speedy and informative replies!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 17:40:25 GMT
There is a lot of good advise in all the replies above. However, much of it reiterates what, for those of us who have been in the sword community a long time, has been repeated almost to the point of cliche, like the sports interview that elicits just one more "we're just taking it one game at a time." And so to broach important advice that often goes overlooked I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment and argue for some perspective.
Simple question. With all the swords being sold out there, including and especially all the cheap but sharp wall hangers and SLOs, where are the hordes of sword-related deaths and injuries?
Not only on this forum but many others there are threads about horror stories, and we're (un)lucky to find even a couple gruesome pictures of injuries--ones that could have been lethal, and might well have been if not for modern medical knowledge, but nonetheless were not.
Similar threads about horror stories in the news are (un)lucky enough to find a very occasional story of someone who, say, hangs a SLO above their bed and has it fall down on a friend's head to kill him.
The third kind of similar thread, where a criminal doofus goes on a rampage (almost invariably w/ a "samurai sword" according to the journalist) most often end with injuries to the victims rather than death.
Why is this? Because while there's no doubt a sword, used with intent and skill, is a lethal weapon--the millions of bodies swords have killed through history attest to it--it is not the godalmighty most-fearsome-weapon, or even tool, that our romanticized impulse wants to make it out to be. Every day, even with regulations requiring seatbelts and airbags, on mundane roads, each one of us who drives or even walks takes a far greater risk of frighteningly serious injury than by anything remotely reasonable we've done with a sword.
That's not hyperbole. 40-50,000 traffic deaths each year in America alone. Subtract the approximately half due to drunk driving, and then half of the rest due to obvious carelessness, and you have 10,000 per year. Not injuries. Deaths. With every reasonable precaution taken.
How many sword deaths did we have again last year?
Think about it the next time we want to post about how deadly swords are, right before getting behind the wheel or even walking across the street.
But I'm not going off from my soapbox just out of irritation at our overinflated fears and need for perspective alone. As I said, this leads to the topic of the OP, and in a way analogous to driving. While care rather than recklessness is correlated with safe driving, all other things being equal, all other things are not equal. An appalling number of traffic accidents--especially serious ones--are caused by timidity. Confident drivers are both confident enough to be safe--and confident enough, in a dynamic situation, to be decisive in their choices.
Just as I've noticed safety concerns over the years--in myself and in others--like not understanding what a SLO is or a rat tail tang and the old helicopters of death (which--find the statistics to refute me if I'm wrong--are far more likely just "helicopters of injury") I've been at least as concerned, if not more, about a wonderfully made sword flying out of a newbie's hands because he's scared of the thing. And over-hyping what a sword is likely to do rarely helps. Counter-intuitive as it may seem, my prescription is to go the opposite route of paranoia.
Can a sword kill you? Sure. But unless it's by the intentional hands of someone trying to do it it still probably won't. Be cognizant of your surroundings. Be cognizant of the construction of your tool. Be cognizant of any reasonable safety equipment you might use. But dammit, throw away the romanticism of how great-and-terrible the tool is and be confident in its use from the start.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 18:01:58 GMT
that goes for anything actually. If you are afraid about what you are about to do, don't do it, cause you are gonna probably end up realizing all of your fears, it's a self-fulfilling prophesy...
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Post by YlliwCir on Nov 22, 2009 18:23:43 GMT
I think you have some good points, Lemal, and I'd submit to the driving analogy that over aggressive drivers cause as many accidents as the timid ones, just drive to work with me sometime.
Not for nothing but I've cut myself several times. Always while sharpening my blades never while actually using them. Aw crap, I'm in for it now, the fates will have my ass for saying that.
Always pays to be careful just the same.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 22:32:56 GMT
Lemal, you do have many good points.
A sword is a tool, like any other. Yes it is a dangerous tool but like any band saw (I bring this up because twice in my life I've seen people lose hands to those beasts) if you take care and think about your actions it can be used safely.
I'll be the first to admit - I PERSONALLY TRAIN BLUNT. I do this not because I am uncertain about my own skills, but I normally train indoors in a small apartment with a young child and two psychotic cats running around. I don't need anybody walking into a sharp blade while I'm doing a sword form. Now, I also have some bad habits from normally practicing blunt like doing sword forms in bare feet, so I occasionally use a sharp blade to increase my awareness about what I am doing. I also move much more slowly when using a sharp (in my case normally a machete).
Yes, swords can be dangerous, but not more so than anything else that many people use on a regular basis (ie car, power tools, kitchen knives....) Just go slow, be careful, and be aware of what you are doing. While you are uncertain about what your are doing use a waster or a steel blunt.
As for any type of sword being more dangerous than another, not really they can all injure or kill, that's what they were designed for. Hell which would be more dangerous my machete (which is used as the tool it is most often) or the straight razor I've taken up shaving with? They can both kill me if I'm not careful. I just have to remember to be careful.
My $0.02
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 19:15:28 GMT
I've seen a guy cut himself (superficially, Thank God) from ear to ear on the splintered end of a shovel that structurally failed. Is a shovel conventionally considered a weapon? Conventionally considered dangerous? No. While a sharp sword is more dangerous than, say a garden-variety shovel, anything can and will kill you if you use it wrong. That said, I've been told if you're only going to own one sword, it should be blunt. If you're going to own two, one should be blunt for practice's sake. Would you gents agree with that advice?
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 24, 2009 19:36:56 GMT
I wouldn't say you have to buy a blunt steel trainer. you can use a wooden waster or shinai or boken or anything sword-like and blunt. blunted steel training swords cost a lot of money. I trained with Rattan sticks for many, many years before I did any real cutting with a sharp sword and I still train with rattan, shinai, boken, and steel blunts. having used all of these I feel I have pretty good perspective on their use.
Train blunt? YES PLEASE! but don't let that stop you from owning a sharp. just practice with your blunt most of the time and only use cuts/moves/techniques with your sharp if you have already practiced them blunt to the point you know what to expect.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 20:25:11 GMT
I wouldn't say you have to buy a blunt steel trainer. [...] Train blunt? YES PLEASE! but don't let that stop you from owning a sharp. just practice with your blunt most of the time and only use cuts/moves/techniques with your sharp if you have already practiced them blunt to the point you know what to expect. Thank you. That perspective very much helps. I really only have two friends that own anything besides an SLO. One does not train or practice blunt at all. The other was the one who advised me to buy a blunt trainer before I bought anything else. (He's also kind of an Albion snob. : I'm looking at buying my first non-SLO and this advice helps immensely.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2009 15:36:53 GMT
I find that if you treat a sword as the lethal tool it is, you are less likely to have mishaps. Always be focused when you have any sword in-hand, especially if you are about to cut, or do drills or any other activity that involves you swinging it around. One second of misplaced focus and an injury can occur.
I know of one SFI member who accidentally sheathed his katana into the large muscle in his leg instead of the saya because, and I may be slightly off on this, its been a while- his wife had walked in and he was momentarily distracted.
It took all of 1 or 2 seconds for that to occur; it is that easy.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2009 16:05:56 GMT
Need I remind everybody of this? /index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=5150 A lot of it comes down to being AWARE of your environment and AWARE of where your sword is and NEVER cutting on impulse or with a movement you haven't practiced deliberately and slowly before hand. Overswinging and impluse are big dangers when you are cutting, but most injuries occur when drawing or sheathing. Always pay close and full attention to the sword when it is not safely housed in the scabbard/saya. This is a good thread to look at: /index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=13372&page=2
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2009 18:44:46 GMT
I always do well with the big, dangerous stuff, it's the little, or not usually dangerous stuff that I have to watch out for, one day a friend came over, and we cut lots of bottles with quite a few swords A good, safe time was had by all The swords were dried off, oiled, and stored, the bottle bits were picked up and consigned to the incinerator. I was talking to my friend as we walked along my concrete patio. All of a sudden, with no warning, I see the concrete coming up at me I was skinned up in places and very sore for days Swords? not dangerous Walking? Extremely Hazardous
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