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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2009 23:20:49 GMT
I was looking at the DSA +$70 custom scabbard & belt, but something intrigued me, there was not buckle/ring in the belt, just two holes. What intrigued me even further was that the other side of the belt was actually cut in two. How is this supposed to work, are you supposed to attach your own buckle or are you supposed to tie it somehow?? I actually went to the DBK site afterward and saw that there were quite a few scabbards with the same belt design, so that intrigued me into opening this thread.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2009 23:45:48 GMT
I haven't seen a historical representation of it in use, but my impression was that this belt system predates the similar integral belt/scabbard with a buckle, and yeah, you would thread the ends thru the holes and tie it off. I guess you would want to use a knot that releases like any of the variations on a bow or horse hitch - secure, but easy to undo.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2009 0:38:45 GMT
Metal was a commodity in antiquity, and to use it on something ornamental as a buckle was a luxury. The metal would not only serve better as an arrow tip or lance head, it would also not waste a smith's time and effort.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2009 3:43:06 GMT
In this age of replicas I think it looks very chique  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2009 21:06:08 GMT
Must be hell getting it off and on tho, eh? I haven't seen it yet but I'll look at'm tonight or tomorrow since I'm off. Anyone else off?
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Post by Brian of DBK on Nov 11, 2009 0:58:59 GMT
Actually, it's quite comfortable, and easy to use. You don't need to knot it, all you have to do is wrap it around the belt and loop it through. The friction from the leather keep's it tight.
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Post by ShooterMike on Nov 11, 2009 1:36:23 GMT
It's my favorite way to wear an integral scabbard and belt. I have 3 that Brian made for me. They are my favorites by far, as to comfort and authenticity.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 11, 2009 3:28:46 GMT
do we have any historical references that tell us how and or if knights in history tied them or if they just wrapped them around themselves and let the friction hold it?
on the friction holding it wouldn't it tend to slip if walking or riding a lot?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2009 4:24:28 GMT
They likely did both, such is the variety of life and choice  either that or they toggled it with a badger |
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Post by ShooterMike on Nov 11, 2009 4:40:12 GMT
A quick scan through Oakeshott's The Sword In The Age of Chivalry shows a pretty distinct drawing of this type of suspension on page 90 in "Figure 58 From a Gollar MS, c 1230". It shows the ends entering the slots, a knot of some kind, and a single small loop sticking out the top, with the two tails hanging downward. This image is from the Maciejowski Bible, front of leaf 11, showing Joshua and his knights rescuing the city of Gibeon from the five kings. One of them is shown on a brown horse while being speared with a lance during the battle. He appears to be wearing this type of suspension also tied with a type knot with the tails hanging down from the knot. There are various similar depictions of knotted belts throughout the Maciejowski Bible. www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images/maciejowski/leaf11/otm11ra&b.gif |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2009 14:45:51 GMT
The knot with single loop and the tails hanging down sounds like a basic "hunter's knot" which is a modified overhand designed for quick release. It would make sense for a sword belt to be tied with something like that so that the belt-scabbard system could be quickly dropped if it started proving cumbersome in battle.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Nov 11, 2009 15:24:17 GMT
You guys should do a quick "How to tie your suspension" tutorial vid on you tube for us.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2009 18:20:06 GMT
I leave that to those more qualified. I just know knots, not belt rigs.
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Post by ShooterMike on Nov 11, 2009 19:40:22 GMT
Heh, heh. I think I would need to know for sure exactly how it was done first. Otherwise, it would just be painting a big ole bullseye on my butt for every medievalist on the internet to take a shot at. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2009 20:18:03 GMT
Yeah, but Mike you shoot back |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2009 21:48:12 GMT
Heh, heh. I think I would need to know for sure exactly how it was done first. Otherwise, it would just be painting a big ole bullseye on my butt for every medievalist on the internet to take a shot at. that just made my day ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2009 8:04:30 GMT
nothing beats a good old peice of wire.
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Post by sparky on Nov 13, 2009 21:43:47 GMT
nothing beats a good old peice of wire. wire! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2009 21:57:17 GMT
Heh, heh. I think I would need to know for sure exactly how it was done first. Otherwise, it would just be painting a big ole bullseye on my butt for every medievalist on the internet to take a shot at. I know what you mean, I am almost afraid to say anything :>).. never know when some histBOREian, will come down on you! -gaffer |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2009 22:45:13 GMT
I know what you mean, I am almost afraid to say anything :>).. never know when some histBOREian, will come down on you! -gaffer Gaff, I must say it is not polite to make fun of those that take history seriously and prefer that things be done the historical way or no way at all. Now that's out of the way. histBOREian! I lol'd. A lot. |
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either that or they toggled it with a badger
