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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 20:47:36 GMT
I was wondering if a sword with a forward curved blade would affect cutting? I would imagine that it does but ive no idea.
Thanks in advance
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 20:57:25 GMT
I'm not sure what you mean; a sword with a forward curved blade, like a yatagan, for instance, has different handling characteristics than say a Euro straight double edged sword, as well as a katana.
Since I do not own one, I can only speculate- and I really can't do that w/out a representation of what you're after. A forward curved blade that has more mass in the forte than toward the handle will be forward-balanced; it would probably make an excellent cutter for medium to hard targets if the blade were beefy enough; but even then, profile, shape, geometry and temper all come into play so....what're we talking about here? A specific sword or just something you've been pondering?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 21:10:38 GMT
If you're solely speaking from a fantasy type of viewpoint, a la the reverse blade Ruroni Kenshin swords, then I'd say you're not looking at a practical blade that can cut well. HOWEVER, there are many types of blades that do cut incredibly well with a forward placed blade. The aforementioned Yatagan is one of the more famous, but also consider the Kopesh, the Kuhkri, the Falcata, the Kopis.... Point being, yes, forward curved swords actually can and Do cut very very well, but they have to be designed for this purpose, instead of just looking cool. Form follows function. As for a more fantasy style, check out brenno's blade here www.fableblades.com/Nyere.htmlThe video of him cutting with this sword is up somewhere, and it looks to be quite effective Now, if you mean "how does affect cutting" instead of "does it work" then really depends blade to blade. With sickle swords more like the above linked fable blade, the tip will engage the target first, giving you the potential for some very very nasty tip cuts. With more Falcata shaped blades, the extra mass near the tip and the continuous curve will give you a very good, albiet forward balanced, chopper and cutter. Actually, some people consider forward curved blades, such as the falcata, to be superior cutters for heavy targets, but that's just opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 21:45:31 GMT
The Kenshin swords never crossed my mind...but I guess they'd qualify in a way...but I didn't think he was, from his OP.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 22:55:07 GMT
Not specifically fantasy swords, just swords in general really. My thought was that a sword with a forward curved blade could cut better than a straight blade because it put the edge in a situation where it would sort of draw the edge along the thing your cutting instead of just kinda hitting it. Im not sure thats a great explanation but thats the best I can do
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 22:56:54 GMT
And I wasnt talking about the "cool" factor of it I thought it might really help
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2009 1:26:12 GMT
If you are talking about reverse blade katanas, don't even bother they are not functional and they feel extremely strange in the hand because of the way a katana is designed. If you are talking about something like my Nyere (yep that one is mine) then I can tell you that to start with it will feel strange in the hand and unless you are very skilled or very strong it is hard to make a blade like that dance. As to cutting, I find that more so than any other sword a forward curved swords requires a very good knowledge of distance because the sweet spot of the blade is lower than the point so if you don't know how to determine distance both before the cut and during the cut and know how to make minor adjustments then it can be a very frustrating sword to use. To start with I was disappointed with nyere because I didn't understand her and I was trying to make her do things the way I would with a straight sword, when I stopped trying to dictate to her and allowed her to go where she wanted and be used how she wanted it makes her a rather amazing sword indeed. If you are going to get one, I would suggest archerout because he works with thinner steels as well and to make a really good forward edged blade you need good thin steel, even though nyere is like a sharp kabutowari I wouldn't have her any other way. Hope this helps.
As to cool factor, it has that in spades it is also wickedly scary because it is unusual and not often seen.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2009 15:53:18 GMT
My thought was that a sword with a forward curved blade could cut better than a straight blade because it put the edge in a situation where it would sort of draw the edge along the thing your cutting instead of just kinda hitting it. Im not sure thats a great explanation but thats the best I can do I think you'll find that blades curved in the normal fashion will do this better than the reverse forward curved blades. A forward curve will tend to push more material into the cutting edge, but a backward curve will tend to draw material across it and so is better at slicing cuts.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2009 16:11:57 GMT
Yea, I don't think he's talking about those, BW.
lgarretto, you can do draw cuts with any sword; some will tell you that the curved blade adds in that aspect and I'd be inclined to agree- to me, tho, that doesn't make the sword 'better'.
What makes the best sword for you is the one that suits your style the best. For me, that's a double edged broadsword but for the next man, it'll be the katana (which is curves back, not forward) and maybe the next, the yatagan-like sword.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2009 17:56:03 GMT
The physics of forward blades mean that they often function better as choppers than cutters, though this can vary quite a bit; sharpened right, my Windlass Horsehead Falcata for instance does just fine on bottles. But with these kinds of blades you can see the deceptive frustration with bottle cutting I've mentioned before.
That is, you almost never get false positives (what will cut a bottle will cut meat) but you can get false negatives (you bat the bottle but will chop through a thick bone-in haunch just fine). I liken many of them to an axe-like sword, which isn't a pejorative. It just is what it is. If you have any questions when using bottles, try on real meat for comparison.
The good news is these blades also hold up better when encountering touch material, from thick wood to armor. It's all a question of trade-offs though, on the spectrum from backwards curved to straight to forward curved.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2009 20:35:15 GMT
ok, No, I wasnt talking about reverse-blade katanas or anything specific. And I know that there are other things that affect performance. I just meant would a reverse curved blade with the same general proportions as a straight blade cut a bit better. Katanas have a curved blade curved the regular way and seem to generally cut better than a broadsword, (although they both have completely different blade geometries). All these assumptions are generalizations so...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2009 21:06:47 GMT
I guess the real question is- what is it you're looking to discover? I've responded on a couple of your other topics regarding balance with regard to cutting and I think one other...might just be THIS topic but either way, I'm assuming you're headed somewhere with these inquiries, beyond the standard 'Jon Kenyon needs to know'- where's that? Wasn't downing you, Jonathan, before you get that in your head- just that you're one of the latest in a long line of inquisitors is all.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2009 21:46:03 GMT
Haha, Jonathan is the current king of inquisitors, but I love him for it. Heck, that "My First Sword" thread is a veritable who's who chronology of major developments in the European production sword market over the summer. I found out about tons of exciting options and resources (like where to buy Atrim blades, for example) reading through his waffling because he really REALLY wanted to know all he could before the plunge, and I thank him for that. I did however, want him to nut up and buy something already by the 20th page or so, but only because he couldn't make a wrong choice at that point and was stressing himself out more than he needed to But some sort of similar context would really be appreciated in Igaretto's questions. They're extremely general right now and hard to answer, and when people have responded with specifics for clarification, he's responded with, "no, I mean, just in general." We wanna help you to the best of our abilities, mate, but that's hard to do when we don't know what you want or what you're getting at. There's only so many times you can say, "does such and such factor affect a sword?" and someone responds, "well yea, of course it does."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2009 23:23:16 GMT
Say now! There is to be no picking on Jonathon. I am very proud of him. He went from knowing very little to a knowledgeable member of this board. He helps to answer as many questions as he asks these days. Now we have to see if he can become more decisive. I think armed with his new knowledge we will see an improvement in that area too.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2009 2:07:20 GMT
Ok, I'm going to need some clarification here because your terms keep changing and I am confused. Are you talking about a standard curved edge sword like a katana or a sabre or are you talking about something like a falx? You ask about forward curved blades to me that says something like a falx, the you ask about a reverse curved blade and I've got nothing? What exactly are you asking? What kind of sword are you talking about and what do you seek to learn?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2009 2:26:41 GMT
Ok, I'm going to need some clarification here because your terms keep changing and I am confused. Are you talking about a standard curved edge sword like a katana or a sabre or are you talking about something like a falx? You ask about forward curved blades to me that says something like a falx, the you ask about a reverse curved blade and I've got nothing? What exactly are you asking? What kind of sword are you talking about and what do you seek to learn? I'm a tad confused too, lgarretto. If you narrow down your questions a bit and get a bit more specific we'll be able to give some better answers. Edit to add: I think the reason some people are confused is that you posted this in the fantasy section when this question is pretty general in nature.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2009 17:25:00 GMT
That just leaves it open to all kinds of speculation; I approached it from a historical/realistic PoV but maybe that's not what he's looking for.
I thought he was a bladesmith already; wasn't he part of the Manufacturers and Vendors? Thought I saw that over his name before. Maybe it was someone else who asked similar questions.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2009 19:09:47 GMT
I'm horrible with words All right. Specifics. I'm wanting to know because I am thinking bout makin a sword bout 40" long with a hilt about 10" and I want to put a blade on it that's got a forward curved blade sort of like a long, kukri style and I would use it as a long machete (if you will) in the woods around here. ( unless I decide tomake it fancy). I wanna know if the forward blade will affect cutting as I cut everything from grasses to thick branches. I don't know what else I can add so if you need more. Ask
And sorry bout notbeong very specific
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2009 21:46:10 GMT
ahhh I'm hearing you now mate ;D From what you've described you'd probably best go with some kind of khukri. I would've sugested a Kopis (which seems to suit your criteria quite well) however it wouldn't be best to go round cutting things as you would a machete with that. As for forward curving blades and cutting they do remarkably well. I believe the Romans had to reinforce their helmets when dealing with the Dacian Falx because they were getting split open.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2009 0:34:06 GMT
ok thanks
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