Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2009 18:25:44 GMT
Just arrived yesterday. Box was pretty smashed up, so I took photos of every step as I unwrapped.
The sword and sheath were undamaged. Kudos to KofA for their tree-killing packaging expertise.
There has been a real approach-avoidance affair between me and this sword for a year or more. All of my CS catalogs says this sword is too heavy to swing well. Even KofA puts the weight at 3.5 lbs.
Well, I picked it up, wiped it off, and was simply amazed at the balance. Yes, it's heavier than most of my other westerns. But I don't really notice the weight.
This thing swings well one-handed or two. Someone on this forum said it swings like a katana. I agree.
It arrived sharp, but the edge was turned so I hit it with a soft stone. Then I went outside and commenced to surgically remove thumb-sized branches of mesquite from a couple of my trees.
No damage to the blade whatsoever. No rattles. Nothing even hinting at loosening.
I decided to attack my evil tire pell. It had been grinning at me while I was hacking at the trees, so I whacked it with multiple strokes using a one-handed grip, either hand. Slapped the pell hard every time. It kept grinning, so I used both hands together. Slap! Slap!
Some of my cuts were slightly misaligned. I could feel some vibration, but checkout of the sword showed no damage and nothing coming loose.
When I decided the pell had enough, I took the Messer inside to examine the blade. It had a very slight nick in the edge from the tire's steel belt. But most importantly to me, nothing rattled. Nothing shook loose.
The only issues I've found with the sword are: 1) The scales and pommel are slightly misaligned. Not an issue with me. I have sandpaper if it starts to bug me. 2) It's not a two-edged blade.
A final comment.... This blade has been machined. There are absolutely no ripples to show hand forging, so I can only imagine that it's machine forged and then final formed by machine as well. The finish is smooth and glossy, and the temper is springy.
Quite satisfied with the 184USD I spent. I'll be looking at other CS products in the near future.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2009 19:21:19 GMT
Sounds like you got a nice sword. I remember hearing a long time ago that the CS messer had issues with the way it's hilt was put together. Can you tell how yours is constructed? Perhaps they've made improvements. I've always wanted a messer but sadly can't afford any of the good ones like albion's. This seems to be the only one in the lower market. I've always wondered if it would take customization well at all. Perhaps a rehilting to look more historical. PS: Ripples and wobbles aren't necessarily a sign of forging. Many cheap stainless machined blades look this way. Likewise just because the blade is flat does not mean it was machined. Almost all forged blades are ground after they are forged. Unless there are obvious signs you really can't tell how a blade was made from it's final shape. I have sanded forged blades to a near perfect smoothness in the grinding process. It's usually easier to tell from the tang because it is not finished. Sorry just a peve of mine
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2009 19:43:57 GMT
I never liked them...just never struck me as anything worth having until I saw Seagal use one in one of his direct-to-video releases...I remember it having a pretty elaborate hilt but he used it much like he does a katana and I'll say, my interest was sort of piqued then. Nice to hear that you got a good CS sword...I've heard more than a few horror stories about some of their other swords.
|
|
|
Post by enkidu on Oct 15, 2009 20:06:11 GMT
I have one at home, but i wouldnt judge other CS products by this one. The other swords by CS are not quite good as this one, IMO anyway based on the fact that have a CS greatsword and on the multiple reviews we have at SBG.
The Messer is well made, structurally sound and tough as hell. Its handles good enough, the balance is alright and its weight feels ok. But not more than that. No its not historicaly accurate, so if thats your bag stay away from it. ( historically more accurate messers are by the way much better looking ! ) The problem with the pommel is that its treaded and that the treading rod is incredibly short past the handle, so you better epoxy it, if not it might fly away if you dont keep your eyes on it. Once epoxied you dont have to bother about it. The handle is knife style with two scales riveted to the tang, so no fear of seeing the blade helicopters away at all even with that stupid pommel design. But if you want to bang things up in style this one is perfect ! And as a display piece it always attracts people, heck, my CS Greatsword and Messer are always the two first blades people ask me about when they see my collection... and then my Atrim and Tinker shed tears...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2009 0:14:59 GMT
Do you mean you can actually see the tang. Is this the current version, like yours? www.myarmoury.com/review_cs_mess.htmlIf it is, then I think it could make a great sword with some modifications. I think it's really cool that CS actually improved this sword. It's always nice to see a company listening to how its' products are received.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2009 1:27:06 GMT
I'd read this review a while back. I think I got a newer design.
Yesterday, looking at the spine, it looked like there was a slight distal taper. Today, sitting in my office at home, I can grab my calipers and actually check. So here goes....
Thickness at the guard: 0.224 inches Thickness just before the flare at the tip: 0.188 inches
Not much, but enough to see with the naked eye.
I'd also heard about the short threaded part of the tang. I won't bother to take this apart unless it loosens. So far it's still tight.
As for machine forging vs hand forging, you could be right. I'm basing my opinion on what I think I know about modern manufacturing techniques. Also, my other swords all exhibit a waviness that suggests hand forging with little polish -- all except my Banshee. It seems to be machined.
I'm not real hung up on historical accuracy yet, although I'm sure I'll get there soon enough. For now, I'm satisfied to have a solid, quick sword that does what I think a sword should do without falling apart. This Messer fits that bill nicely.
Also, good advice about not expecting all CS products to be as solid as the GM. I'll keep that in mind so my expectations don't run amok.
Thanks for reading. Thanks for your comments.
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Oct 16, 2009 3:35:17 GMT
Nice comments. I think you should turn this into an actual review, with pictures and statistics, if'n you get the chance and have the inclination.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2009 4:02:25 GMT
yes, the newer version does have the handle completely cover the tang, but it's still riveted to the tang, so no helicoptering nonetheless. edit: I bought mine from KoA too and after unpacking a considerable amount of general debris in about 40% of my room...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2009 2:57:12 GMT
Its one of those swords you would wet your pants if it came through the VA or Hanwei Tinker lines ........ dream the little dreams ........
|
|
Dom T.
Member
Success, depress, ambition. Progress, regress, recognition.
Posts: 766
|
Post by Dom T. on Oct 17, 2009 18:09:03 GMT
I've wanted a CS Grosse Messer for some time actually. Had enough money, but then I spent it on the DSA SBG sale lol. But yeah, I want one mostly just for a durable sword, and I don't really give a hoot about historical correctness for that sword. Also, like the My Armory review says, I really do think that grosse messers are under represented in the sword market. Can't remember any other swords styled like that during my time looking at swords on the internet.
|
|
|
Post by enkidu on Oct 17, 2009 19:19:27 GMT
Yep, its a rarely reproduced design, Lutel: www.lutel.eu/ and Albion are about the only ones that came up with a production piece that looks like a Messer. Since VA is coming up with a falchion that means that they are ready to take chances to widen their product range, maybe they will be the next to try !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2009 8:41:53 GMT
"It arrived sharp, but the edge was turned so I hit it with a soft stone." As a total newb, it would freak me out if my brand new sword arrived like that. I suppose I could try using a stone on it, I've sharpened knives and sooner or later I'm going to have to do it (I have yet to get a sword but my birthday is November fifth and the wife is dropping hints) but would KoA have accepted a return of the sword or is a "turned edge" just considered a normal thing to be expected? Sorry to jump into your thread with my question and thanks for all the information on the Grosse Messer, it's on my short list but I obsess over details and this is bugging me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2009 18:36:18 GMT
What Dom T said. 100%.
Slackitude,
I think a turned edge is pretty normal. It certainly didn't make me want to return the sword.
I put on a pair of work gloves and lay the blade across my thighs, taking care not to scuff the blade or cut myself. Just a few minutes' work with oil and stone...certainly worth the effort.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2009 19:23:58 GMT
slack, you could've sent it back if you wanted to...but I know a lot of sword owners who pride themselves on the ability to 'fix' the small stuff. Not me...I want it pristine because that's what I paid for, but ymmv.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2009 0:20:00 GMT
Thank you, BlackhawkFan and Ebon Paladin for two very different and, in my opinion, equally valid takes on the same situation. Only time and my own experiences will lead me to my answer to this question, but thanks for the guidance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2009 7:17:20 GMT
Does KoA still have the lowest price on the CS Grosse Messer? I'm really wanting to buy one, I can feel my fingers already typing in my credit card number, so I figured that I'd find the lowest price first before the full on compulsion hit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2009 8:42:08 GMT
Does KoA still have the lowest price on the CS Grosse Messer? I'm really wanting to buy one, I can feel my fingers already typing in my credit card number, so I figured that I'd find the lowest price first before the full on compulsion hit. I'm not the foremost authority on this, but I've shopped this particular sword and KoA had the lowest price I found anywhere. Plus KoA has a pretty good return policy from what I understand.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2009 18:24:16 GMT
Don't know if they're the absolute cheapest, but their customer service is well worth whatever you might be overspending.
Like Paladin said, you can send it back if you don't like it. Just don't sharpen any sword from them until you're sure you want to keep it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2009 19:06:37 GMT
LOL
Someone's got me on the brain I see. But I agree with slack and Blackhawk...KoA is very easy to deal with and their customer service is top notch. Actually, lately, it seems they ALL have boned up on their CS skills...its hard to go wrong with any of them, but KoA seems to have the lowest prices out there and I hear their sharpening service has gotten better.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2009 16:12:50 GMT
LOL Someone's got me on the brain I see. I've learned that you're a wealth of good information, sir.
|
|