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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2009 23:51:21 GMT
So I've been thinking about this lately and I think it is an interesting question. This is also tied to a question Gearloose asked a couple of weeks ago regarding whether a blade that costs twice as much as another blade is twice the blade.
Now as I understand it there are essentially 3 general classes for swords: mass-production swords, custom swords, and authentic (antiques). No I think that no one would argue that, generally speaking, the authentic sword carries the most value and, if kept properly, will appreciate in value as time goes on. Antiques are the pieces museums desperately want and get studied by academia.
On the other spectrum is the mass-production sword. These aren't the SLO's: these are the kris cutlery swords, the deepeeka swords and the windlass swords. This is also what I would group Albion and ATrim and other good ones. So being in this class has no implications on whether the sword is good or not. These are the least likely to appreciate in value over time because they are so common. In time time they will cross-over to the antique grouping, but that will take a while. These things need to become scarce, first.
Then there are the custom makes. These are one-offs, unique but with no history to them. In general they'll be more expensive than the mass production sword, but they'll be cheaper than the antiques. Whether they will appreciate in value will depend on a lot of things - but they are more likely to appreciate in value than the mass produced sword.
Now does that make sense? Under what conditions does a sword in someone's collection start appreciating in value instead of depreciating?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2009 1:03:52 GMT
Probably at the swords origins end, when a custom made swords smith dies or maybe for a mass production sword when the company goes bust and isnt gonna be made, or maybe limited editions once the final ones sold and the license has expired ........ value is a tight thing
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Post by sicheah on Oct 8, 2009 1:08:56 GMT
A sword appreciates in value, if you pardon the jargon, when there are a quite a few people willing to pay a price higher than the price that you purchase. Focusing on a production swords, these swords are usually discontinued or when the supply dwindles and the demand remains high if not increasing. And these swords tend to be very good of course (and people value them). A knife I could think of is the Benchmade balisong (or balisongs in general), If I am not mistaken balisongs are borderline illegal in most states in US and other countries because you could deploy it quickly...(yeah knife laws and those craps ). So Benchmade make very few of them recently but the demand for balisong are quite high...because they are cool objects. Last 2 years or so, a BM42 cost about $140, now they are about $200. It is still in production, but low supply and high demand over time jacks up the price. Another sword on top of my mind is the Windlass XIV (if you have one...keep it). It is currently discontinued but still available at KoA (if you want one now...don't wait ;D) A very-very good windlass sword for the money, even if you are not into Euro swords. I would expect them to appreciate in value (maybe not by much) in the near future. And of course there is the "famous" Masahiro Bamboo...under $100 retail before it was discontinued (at 2007?), but I am sure there are some who is willing to pay a little over $100 now. Edit:grammar
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2009 1:12:44 GMT
Appreciation of a sword in the custom market is based on a few things.
The maker's rep in the sword world, is it good or bad?
What is they're market? Ren faires or ebay or the real world?
what is they're shop practices? do they use known steel, how do they make swords?
is this sword a rarity for them? Some old blades from early on in the smiths career are worth more because they are early peices and are oddballs.
raw skill. How good was the smith?
Performance? Do they're swords have a reputation for being tough? excellent cutters? or do they have repuations for being benders or snappers?
And finally but most importantly, do they strike a personal chord in your soul or heart or mind?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2009 2:03:51 GMT
Appreciation of a sword in the custom market is based on a few things. The maker's rep in the sword world, is it good or bad? What is they're market? Ren faires or ebay or the real world? what is they're shop practices? do they use known steel, how do they make swords? is this sword a rarity for them? Some old blades from early on in the smiths career are worth more because they are early peices and are oddballs. raw skill. How good was the smith? Performance? Do they're swords have a reputation for being tough? excellent cutters? or do they have repuations for being benders or snappers? And finally but most importantly, do they strike a personal chord in your soul or heart or mind? A lot of what you mention is tied into reputation, and in the end it sounds like it comes down to who the swordsmith is. I think that when we start talking about a sword appreciating in value we find ourselves really talking about the custom sword market. I agree that the more mainstream mass produced swords can appreciate in value if they are discontinued or a limited release, but I don't think they carry the same amount of value as a commissioned order, or the same potential for value appreciation. A large part of this, I think, is because they are machined, to a large degree. Now having said that, I will confess that I'm unclear on how a custom job is approached. Do these smiths start from scratch with a block of steel and then forge it by hand to achieve their product or do they use some sort of machine to cut the general shape of the blade. Like on the albion website they have a video of their sword manufacturing process and the shaping of the blade is done by a machine.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2009 17:15:58 GMT
In general you are correct about appreciation. Now, the bad news, appreciation does not happen over night, and most of the examples quoted above are for very small amounts of money. In general, production swords can appreciate in value, but there is a very visible ceiling. An example would be the Dracula sword made by windlass for a while, some of you whippersnappers may not remember this one, it was a while back. The reason why it was so revered was because it was a fantastic sword, for cheap. If you take away the "for cheap" part of the equation, the sword is not longer worth it. I think they sold for around $100 retail. This was a fantastic price, but as soon as someone asked $500 on the classifieds for it, it wouldn't sell, the reason is, I could get a new *insert favorite maker here* for that same price. This is the case with the masahiro bamboo, great sword for $100, good sword for $150, meh, theres better stuff for $200, and $300 is just insane. So, as long as there are quality swords being mass produced, mass production swords are not going to go up in value considerably, because it could always be replaced by a new piece.
Now, there is another category that you didn't mention, which are intentional collector swords (ie. limited production runs, swords made for a movie, or book or whatever). Intentional collector swords are made to be limited supply. These swords will go up value, as long as their basis stays in favor. If the movie sucks, the swords won't be worth much. If the movie becomes a classic, people may still want the swords 50 years later. This is a gamble at the best.
Custom swords stand a good chance of going up in value considerably, based one the swordsmiths reputation, this was covered well above.
Antiques - now, this is just a whole lot of....well....luck. For some reason people think antiques will always go up in value. NOT TRUE. I like to compare these to cars. Some cars become classics (1966 Mustang), some don't (1994 Impala). Now, this is still questionable, because certain things come into favor and go out of favor. If you have a 1966 Mustang, it'll probably always be worth money. If you have a 1994 Impala, it probably won't be worth money, until in 2064, they want to make a period 90's film, and need a car that looks like it's from the 90's. Or 90's collecting becomes all the rage. Same is true with swords. A British 1796 is probably always going to be worth money, but a Dha from the 1700's may or may not be worth money, depends on if people start liking Dha's.
As with all investments, you have to look at the risk involved. Certain swords will probably always be in style (Cruciform "Knight" swords, Rapiers, Katana), and others will come in and out of demand. In addition, certain swords have very classic features, others have features that are a fad.
Final word - a sword is only worth as much as someone will pay you for it.....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2009 17:58:55 GMT
I imagine Jody Samson pieces will go up in value eventually, if they haven't already seeing as he's passed on...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2009 2:54:04 GMT
I imagine Jody Samson pieces will go up in value eventually, if they haven't already seeing as he's passed on... Jody Samson was a smith? What's the story with this smith Patrick Barta? I've read some interesting things about him, but I haven't found a lot of information on the net.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2009 5:38:30 GMT
. I'm long on experience collecting firearms. Short on time with swords. But these are my observations at this time in respect to this topic. In general, of course. If you can find an Albion sword that currently sells for $1000 on their website for $400, then there is certainly room for a quick profit. Compared to firearms, the sword market is very small, and the active collector/enthusiast community small as well. This translates to a slower sell if you want market price for your item. Another axiomatic point here is that the higher the price of an item, there is an even smaller market. So I would rate the sword market as having limited "fluidity" compared to some other collectibles. Consider carefully what you buy. Expect to loose $$ in this market if you are a chap that sells yesterday's heart throb sword to buy today's new found love. Unless you buy used items at a steep discount. Supply and demand is of course, universal. What is hot today may be hotter tomorrow, or it may not. Or what is a sleeper today, could be tomorrow's object of lust. After that, it is quality, quality, quality. Try to buy value. After that, it is condition, condition, condition. Take care of your stuff. Another universal when spending your money -- KNOW YOUR STUFF. Read, question, meditate before you buy. After you commit, enjoy ! best, Chris .
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