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Post by admin on Apr 18, 2007 6:38:46 GMT
I couldn't have said it better myself..! SFI has its niche like myarmoury does....they fill space on one side of the line -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just not mine ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2007 6:43:23 GMT
Karma point for Justin. That's the best I've ever heard it said.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2007 13:48:55 GMT
I went to SFI and read Masterchief's (a.albano's) post. I have to say I understand his frustration. I think he did well to post this for us, and I thank the Masterchief for bringing us into this issue. I didn't think anyone posting on this thread at SFI was harsh or out of line or elitist or anything of that nature. They treated Generation 2 products with respect and expected the vendor and manufacturer to stand behind their swords just like any good manufacturer. Glen C. made a good suggestion about posting to SBG Forum: "I would relate this tale over at Paul Southren's forums because Arms Of Valor management participates there. I would hate to see this become an interboard issue. " I think there was a little bit of he and Clyde being out of sync on communication, thus Clyde's post above. However, a.albano's last post on SFI seems to sum it up. "Thanks again Clyde for being so helpful and sending me another sword without first getting back the bad one.You really stand behind your products.I applaud you. " Glen's statement of "I would hate to see this become an interboard issue. " really says a lot. I would have to agree. Sorry if I come off as "preachy" and I'm not trying to call anyone on the carpet, but jeez...poking fun at SFI doesn't do us any good. I know all of you and realize it is meant in good-natured fun, but I wonder if everyone reading this thread would? Sorry if this offends anyone, but I'm just trying to be fair. I am sorry I did not want it to get this far. And forgive me. The reason for my post like it was, is simple. He posted it well after he and I talked and I thought after talking and ensuring him it will be taken care of and we will not be out any money should have warranted a different post here, not copy and paste. After my post here, I thought about it and knew I was probably too harsh so after thinking more carefully, I posted the high light of the conversation and what will be done at SFI, thus his follow up post there. I know his frustration and it frustrates me that every sword can not be perfect. I can not stand when we have a bad one get into some one's hands. But, when you still have the human element, and for swords I will still stick to that, the human element is still the best. So we try to keep any defects to a minimum. I do not like to boast, never have and never want to take it up. But out defect rate is still under 1%. Most manufacturers are elated with 2%. So I will boast on the workers, not me.
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Post by jw on Apr 18, 2007 17:34:34 GMT
OK, I rescind my statement, it does have it's place as I will refrain from making bitter remarks since it really isn't cool. I will also try and look at SFI in a different way. Thanks guys. jw
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Post by rammstein on Apr 18, 2007 19:23:40 GMT
here's what I was referring to:
"They want you to fix the blade yourself? Uh uh...send it back!"
"Everyone gets 2 chances because anyone can screw up once. But 3? Nah.............."
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Post by ShooterMike on Apr 18, 2007 19:32:18 GMT
I think Jennifer was just saying "You bought a new sword. You shouldn't correct a defect yourself. You should send it back for replacement. If the replacement gives you any trouble, then you shouldn't buy another Gen2 sword."
That sounds like valid input. Wouldn't everyone here probably say the same thing about a vendor or manufacturer we were unfamiliar with?
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Post by rammstein on Apr 18, 2007 19:51:17 GMT
I got the impression that that WASN'T what was suggested. He didn't have to correct it himself. That was only an option given to him. I think it is rather nice of of gen2 to recommend a way to fix it yourself instead of going through the hassle of repackaging the sword, sending it back and waiting for a new one. But again, he didn't have to do that so jeniffer's response was not warrented because gen2 said nothing about TELLING him to fix it himself.
See where I'm coming from?
enough of the sfi bashing though. It's a bit like preaching to the choir since everyone is of a similar mindset. No point in telling each other what we already know ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2007 21:46:15 GMT
I should apoligize to Masterchief.
I should not have been so harsh, after thinking it over I understand the anger and frustration he was feeling, and while I think it could have been handled differently, it is not easy to make the right decision while angry.
All of us one point (some of us more than one) have had that moment of hot-headed actions.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2007 17:49:48 GMT
Thanks .Clyde took care of it.
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Post by rammstein on May 6, 2007 21:36:44 GMT
Not that I'm really offended, but I'd prefer if you wouldn't single me out as being negative. I truly believe that your cause for wanteing a replacement and not trusting gen2 for a while is well-founded, but I disagree with it. My attempt was to show you how great of a company they were, not to ridicule you for not liking them. My apoligies
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Post by hotspur on May 6, 2007 22:43:58 GMT
Gosh, my ears are burning One thing that can be said for SFI and My Armoury is that the "other guy's forum" bashing is really minimal. It's generally not tolerated. As far as the home remedy for fixing of heat treat gone awry goes; Who's to say the heat treat and blade characteristics aren't what caused the scabbard to bend? All y'all may have your fingers in your ears going LALALALALA but blades can take a set on their own, well after a quench. Gus Trim has had a few and I'm sure others have as well. Gus related a tale of one blade that had quite a mind of its own, depending on the phase of the moon What may make a blade straight temporarily might not last more than indefinitely. As to bias, I see it everywhere and these boards are no exception. What one would see, if reviewing my history of participation everywhere is a pretty open mind. All levels of this passion for swords deserve attention and I think you will see the vast majority of all sword communities agreeing with that. FWIW, I have pushed my more expensive swords a lot harder than the less expensive ones. Saying other folk don't, or won't is simply ignoring the facts. I have a history with a few folk here and I promise to try playing nice. They may want to think what actions brought them here and why it is the only place they feel comfortable running their rap. Cordially Hotspur; Glen C., for those maybe still wondering
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Post by rammstein on May 6, 2007 22:57:05 GMT
Glen, we've all had some bad experiences at other forums. Personally, I don't like SFI very much, although I do occasionally post. I am often at myarmoury and I don't have any animosity towards them at all. SFI on the other hand has been pretty critical of several of our members, so much that they've completely ignored SFI altogether. It's hard NOT to have harsh feelings for them after that. Hotspur (glen), I don't really have any qualms against SFI members coming here (you are a perfect example) and I respect the level of knowledge over there. Unfortunately, I really don't want to see this forum going the way of SFI. People here a bit a sore, as you can tell. Personally, I've never had a bad experience there, but I've seen other people who have (and read their conversations), and I really don't want that. Again, I wish you great times at sbg sword forum, but you're probably going to encounter more SFI bashing than you've already seen. Some even go so far as to reference SFI with totalitarian disctatorship, but that's going a bit far if you ask me. As justin put it, it fills it's niche well. It's just not my niche. I hope you don't have bad opinions of us though and I hope your time here is enjoyable I look forward to seeing you around, and so far you've done a wonderful job of helping out!
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Post by hotspur on May 6, 2007 23:21:10 GMT
Ah, if you look beyond any dictatorship, you can find a utopian paradise wherever you may find yourself. I am forgetting the exact quote and context but be careful about becoming that which you abhor. Cheers Hotspur; enlightenment knows no prejudice
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Post by rammstein on May 6, 2007 23:22:48 GMT
Karma for that
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Post by ShooterMike on May 7, 2007 1:25:19 GMT
Ah, if you look beyond any dictatorship, you can find a utopian paradise wherever you may find yourself. I am forgetting the exact quote and context but be careful about becoming that which you abhor. Cheers Hotspur; enlightenment knows no prejudiceKarma for Hotspur from me. Definitely a sentiment for us all to remember. We each have an opinion, and while everyone else may not agree with it, we should fight for the right of all to express it.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2007 22:31:33 GMT
Well said Shooter Mike...I'll sum it all up.I didn't imply to (dis) anyone.As I've stated,Clyde took care of the situation and was most helpful to correcting it ;D.My post here was the same thread posted from over at SFI , to inform users of my situation and for any input.I did speak to Clyde over the phone,but I think I also posted this thread after the fact,to users of SBG,as stated above.My apologies to Clyde for any mix-up or confusion as the follow up post at SFI showed, as it was remedied.Sorry not to give a follow up post sooner . To all the negative responders ,(sorry Rammstein) I say that I never said I was getting $crewed over and that Jason at AOV was more than happy to remedy this situation.I had no reserve concerning their credibility either,(and I apologize to you Jason,for any misunderstandings )but most definitely I have a major concern with Gen2's quality control and it is their responsibility to correct it for the future (blades,scabbards.etc.)I own other very high end swords which is why I post at SFI too,and I expect as probably everyone else does, high quality products. Resellers should be in close communication with the manufacturer to make sure QC is at the up-most highest standards. Finally,I did receive the Black Prince,did some cutting and testing and I'm most happy with it.Clyde even cleaned off the gunk and also supplied with me with a cool hat. Thank you Clyde for your help and commitment to your products and customers....... ;D ;D Glad it all went well for you and hope to see the new post at SFI as well. Enjoy
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2007 22:39:14 GMT
Gosh, my ears are burning One thing that can be said for SFI and My Armoury is that the "other guy's forum" bashing is really minimal. It's generally not tolerated. As far as the home remedy for fixing of heat treat gone awry goes; Who's to say the heat treat and blade characteristics aren't what caused the scabbard to bend? All y'all may have your fingers in your ears going LALALALALA but blades can take a set on their own, well after a quench. Gus Trim has had a few and I'm sure others have as well. Gus related a tale of one blade that had quite a mind of its own, depending on the phase of the moon What may make a blade straight temporarily might not last more than indefinitely. As to bias, I see it everywhere and these boards are no exception. What one would see, if reviewing my history of participation everywhere is a pretty open mind. All levels of this passion for swords deserve attention and I think you will see the vast majority of all sword communities agreeing with that. FWIW, I have pushed my more expensive swords a lot harder than the less expensive ones. Saying other folk don't, or won't is simply ignoring the facts. I have a history with a few folk here and I promise to try playing nice. They may want to think what actions brought them here and why it is the only place they feel comfortable running their rap. Cordially Hotspur; Glen C., for those maybe still wondering Hey Hotspur (Glen C.) Good to see you here. Do forgive me for not knowing that was you until now. I have never heard of that but there is allot that plays into the tempering (or final drawing of the temper) and humidity, no humidity, wind, etc plays a big part in how well a blade gets tempered. That is why the Japanese sword makers had a chart to go by. Certain times of the year, alignment of the moon, etc for the best temper and even when to forge a blade. I do not think that is what happened here, but what you bring up, is something else to add. If that happened to Gus, I am sure it did. He is well respected by me and many others here in this forum. I bet he still shakes his head on that one.
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Post by hotspur on May 8, 2007 23:49:58 GMT
Gus has all his stuff done by a certified heat treater and has had a coule go out to later take a set on thier own. That specific example had gone out and theperturbed owner sent it back. Gus did do a spot heat and tweek on it and the blade was fine for awhile, only to take a set again. Basically getting chucked in a pile, the blade just proved to be tempermental.
Professional heat treaters will often straighten blades that warp. There are varied reasons it could happen. Guys that do a lot of knife grinding look to their methodology as part of the problem but a given piece of steel stock could have had problems from the foundry as well.
Stuff happens.
Cheers
Hotspur; I don't buy into the mythology of ancient rites concerning smithing but they were doing whatever they did for a reason
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2007 2:12:42 GMT
No apologies needed. I just wanted to explain my experience with everyone but regret I didn't follow up with my thread on this site like I did on SFI. I was definitely aggravated after getting two defective sword back to back ,so please understand my frustration. Everything was remedied thanks to Clyde and Jason. All I ask of the resellers is to make sure that all swords and scabbards are inspected before shipping which would save a lot of problems for the customer and the reseller. Thank you for understanding my plight.
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