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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2007 22:50:03 GMT
Well said Shooter Mike...I'll sum it all up.I didn't imply to (dis) anyone.As I've stated,Clyde took care of the situation and was most helpful to correcting it ;D.My post here was the same thread posted from over at SFI , to inform users of my situation and for any input.I did speak to Clyde over the phone,but I think I also posted this thread after the fact,to users of SBG,as stated above.My apologies to Clyde for any mix-up or confusion as the follow up post at SFI showed, as it was remedied.Sorry not to give a follow up post sooner . To all the negative responders ,(sorry Rammstein) I say that I never said I was getting $crewed over and that Jason at AOV was more than happy to remedy this situation.I had no reserve concerning their credibility either,(and I apologize to you Jason,for any misunderstandings )but most definitely I have a major concern with Gen2's quality control and it is their responsibility to correct it for the future (blades,scabbards.etc.)I own other very high end swords which is why I post at SFI too,and I expect as probably everyone else does, high quality products. Resellers should be in close communication with the manufacturer to make sure QC is at the up-most highest standards. Finally,I did receive the Black Prince,did some cutting and testing and I'm most happy with it.Clyde even cleaned off the gunk and also supplied with me with a cool hat. Thank you Clyde for your help and commitment to your products and customers....... ;D ;D
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Post by jpfranco on Apr 16, 2007 23:11:02 GMT
A lot of people in this forum are Gen 2 lovers and I am curious to see what they will have to say. I own a Gen 2 Falcata and had no such problem, mind you the blade is much wider than a normal medieval sword. I am sure that Clyde will also get in on this one. I have to admit that this situation surprises me. I guess this just proves a point, nothing nor anybody is perfect and even a company which has a reputation for making one of the toughest sword on the market has a few flaws. I hope your situation can be resolved and, as I got to know the character of Jason from AOV and Clyde from Gen 2, your troubles will not go unanswered.
Hope this incident will not turn you off the amazing passion that unites us all in this forum.
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Post by rammstein on Apr 16, 2007 23:23:33 GMT
The fact that they are more than willing to help you out and try to replace the sword shows that they care. The aren't just leaving you with a messed up sword and no refund and hope you go away Try it again. Jason and Clyde are great guys and they are more than willing to help you out, despite personal and monetary hinderances. I'm pretty sure gen2 is no at fault on this issue as their quality has been stellar from what I've seen. I can only point to poor postal service as being the culprit. sorry you've had this problem
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2007 1:03:20 GMT
The fact that the scabbards were warped in the same fashion as the blades indicates (in my mind) manufacturing issues, rather than shipping damage. I think Clyde needs to fly over to the Philippines and kick some rear. It sounds like the heat treat boys aren't earning their keep recently. ShooterMike had a similar heat treat issue with his G2 Ranger Sword (which he fixed himself using the home remedy suggested by Clyde [which is a pretty good method]). These sorts of inconsistencies make an appearance from time to time, particularly in the lower end market (like Rammstein's Windlass Shrewsbury which had blade issues, while mine didn't), but this makes 3 G2's in a month that seem to have issues. As to the suggestion that you try the home heat treat method to see if it might work, that wasn't an attempt to try to screw you over, rather an attempt to see if they could help you out without you having to go through shipping the sword back and waiting on a replacement. In the end, what matters is that Clyde and/or Jason will make the situation right, so no worries in that respect. Both these guys will bend over backward to make sure their customers are happy.
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Post by rammstein on Apr 17, 2007 1:42:23 GMT
I noticed that SFI is at it again. Apparently they take offense at Clyde's home remedy for heat treating. He didn't say "fix it yourself" he said that, if you didn't want to go trhough the hassle of reshipping it and waiting for another, you could easily fix it with a few seconds of your time. That doesn't equate to a surly "do it yourself" response that SFI has hashed up.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2007 2:08:48 GMT
Masterchief, sorry about the hassle. I spoke with Clyde today about the issue and we both agree that the scabbard on both swords was warped or warped during transit and a prolonged bend caused the swords to take a set. I did in fact give the Lucerne a good inspection before shipping it, but did not inspect the scabbard. So I am not sure when the scabbard warping took place.
When we spoke on the phone I had no idea how pronounced the bend was, thus some of my reasoning behind suggesting the home remedy and of course to also prevent the hassle of packing and shipping another sword. I also offered to pay up to $20 for the return shipping so that you would not be out of pocket on the exchange.
As always, Clyde will definitely stand behind his Gen 2 swords and is going to personally inspect and ship a new Black Prince when they arrive in about a week or two.
Once again I would like to apologize on behalf of Arms of Valor and let everyone know that we have and will continue to do everything in our power to make sure our customers are happy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2007 3:30:25 GMT
That sounds like it might have been damaged durring shipment. UPS has been known to damage things. The sword should be exchanged. UPS has a 100 automatic warranty for Jason and Clyde to persue with them.
There is a lot of things that go go wrong in any business, they cetainly do in mine. The questions is how things are made right after that. I have confidence this issue will be resolved to perfection by Gen 2. This is the reputation they have created for themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2007 14:10:30 GMT
MasterChief you and I spoke on the phone, in fact you called me, which I am always glad to talk to people. Why did not not mention this in this post? I explained that the wood in the scabbard dried out and warped. If they do not get a good heat or burn on the wood to dry it out (since it is a tropical area) the wood will not dry out there and cause problems here. I also explained if you remember that this does not happen often but sometimes it does happen. So if the scabbard is bent and after Jason inspected the blade, for that is the most important part of the sword and since scabbards rarely warp, he is human and made a mistake by not checking the scabbard.
Now the blade is tempered but when you put a curve in the blade like that from the scabbard being warped and it stays that way for several days (ie. like in transport to you (5 days if I remember) it will take out the memory of the blade and all the flexing in the wold will not bring it back.
I also did not see any mention on how we are going to handle it. That I will send out to you a Black Prince and check out the blade, handle and scabbard you seemed real pleased. Why did I not see it in this post and you posted this well after we talked. I went to Sword Forum and I did not see you post there after our talk either.
We are going to make it right. Are you going to re-post after that how the conversation went and how we are not even going to get the current sword back from you first, but will send out the Black Prince once they re-stock next week and make sure you are happy before we send a return label so that you are not out any money?
I understand your frustration and we are sorry but will stand behind it.
But your post after you seemed happy is a bit trashing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2007 18:46:07 GMT
Just my $0.02 here but...
I don't see how making this thread on numerous boards does anyone any good.
The people involved know of the problem, and said they would take care of it. Now I understand that you are angry about recieving the 2nd sword in the same condition.
I just don't see the need for a multi-forum flame fest, Jason at AOV and Clyde have always been active here and never once I have seen them have the "It's your problem" or "all sales final" take on these type of things.
So be upset, but know that these 2 will make it right, as their track records in these areas are unblemished as far as I know.
Did you have a bad experience...yes Are they making it right.....yes
Whatelse can you ask for..............
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2007 18:53:28 GMT
Well Said.
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Post by jpfranco on Apr 17, 2007 20:48:17 GMT
I do not have a problem with a customer mentioning what went wrong with a product if another can use this forum to mention what went well. This is how, in my opinion, people can get educated the best about a company or a product. If a company, Gen 2 in this case, has a great track record, the people using this forum will know it. I fully understand how masterchief feels the same way I understand how you all felt when you handled a great sword for the first time. What goes around can certainly come around.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2007 21:02:42 GMT
I did not mean to make it sound like nothing should have been said, rather a different way to handle such things. My Gen2 should be here in the very near future and I hope I will not have this problem, but if I do, I will take it for what is.. an exception on a, from what I have heard, a high quality product with a great record in customer service as I have seen here. Yes 2 swords had this bend, but if they are making it right. Then a bad batch of scabbards is not bash worthy IMO. That goes into the "$h!t happens" category ;D I know the wait can be tough. (not sure if thats the true aggrevation here or not) just ask Rammstein about his Ritter, I ordered my Gen2 in the begining of Feb. waiting is part of the addiction, that makes it soo much sweeter when you see the UPS/FEDEX guy pull out that tell-tale shaped box and you get to yell IT'S HERE IT'S HERE all I'm saying is this..... time and patience have a way of sorting out the things that make you angry. Given time I am sure all parties involved will be satisfied with the end result.
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Post by jw on Apr 17, 2007 22:00:59 GMT
I received a bad sword and it was replaced without any problems, this seems to be normal for most sword purchases.
The fact that the two swords you received had the same exact damage which was not caught at the shop leads me to believe that it was damaged in transit, either from outside influences or from the shipping co. itself.
So I can see why you would be bummed but not pissed, unless the place you bought it from said piss off... Then it is war. BUT, you were given an explanation and didn't mention it which is suspect in my book, pile on the multiple postings at different forums and i'm thinking this is just here to diss the manufacturer, who has been totally cool to you to date...
SFI can eat cyberpoo for all I care, I want to see those lofties use one of their authentic 'swords' to cut some chain mail or just shut up. Its like, 'you not wearing Prada and those shoes aren't designer' we don't want your kind here...
If that attitude comes with owning a 'real' sword i'll take the SLO's and happiness...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2007 23:14:51 GMT
my stomach hurts from laughing
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Post by ShooterMike on Apr 18, 2007 0:15:12 GMT
I went to SFI and read Masterchief's (a.albano's) post. I have to say I understand his frustration. I think he did well to post this for us, and I thank the Masterchief for bringing us into this issue. I didn't think anyone posting on this thread at SFI was harsh or out of line or elitist or anything of that nature. They treated Generation 2 products with respect and expected the vendor and manufacturer to stand behind their swords just like any good manufacturer. Glen C. made a good suggestion about posting to SBG Forum: "I would relate this tale over at Paul Southren's forums because Arms Of Valor management participates there. I would hate to see this become an interboard issue. " I think there was a little bit of he and Clyde being out of sync on communication, thus Clyde's post above. However, a.albano's last post on SFI seems to sum it up. "Thanks again Clyde for being so helpful and sending me another sword without first getting back the bad one.You really stand behind your products.I applaud you. " Glen's statement of "I would hate to see this become an interboard issue. " really says a lot. I would have to agree. Sorry if I come off as "preachy" and I'm not trying to call anyone on the carpet, but jeez...poking fun at SFI doesn't do us any good. I know all of you and realize it is meant in good-natured fun, but I wonder if everyone reading this thread would? Sorry if this offends anyone, but I'm just trying to be fair.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2007 0:23:25 GMT
Well now that the issue is resolved, it's all now just water under the bridge -Tim
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2007 0:27:52 GMT
As usual, Mike, you are the voice of reason. Accordingly, I have made a few mods and deletions in order to set things back upon a more civil course. Thank you.
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Post by jw on Apr 18, 2007 0:45:25 GMT
I feel that way about SFI regardless of the most recent comments, I was enjoying that forum until the snobbery was too much to take, sorry if it offends some people but it happens to be the way I feel about it.
I was NOT making a comment on the DIY home hardening (I don't visit SFI anymore) topic I was making a general comment about the prevailing attitude over at SFI. It isn't friendly and almost pushed me away from enjoying swords/ sword forums.
Call it a constructive critique.
Now, if Paul feels ANY heat over this, feel free to nuke my posts.
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Post by ShooterMike on Apr 18, 2007 0:56:17 GMT
Please don't misunderstand my comments. I know there are folks here with valid negative feelings about their treatment at SFI. I was just being specific about this thread from Masterchief on both sites and don't want him to feel unwelcome or ganged-up-on. And the few folks on this thread at SFI were civil and reasonable.
I am a member at SFI, but have never posted and only visit there once in a blue moon, so I don't have a leg to stand on if I began defending SFI on a broad front.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2007 4:25:57 GMT
SFI has its niche like myarmoury does....they fill space on one side of the line
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Just not mine ;D
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