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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2009 16:03:55 GMT
Hi, I'm new to the website. I've searched around in the forums trying to get an answer to my questions regarding longswords but haven't quite found an answer. My son saw the video regarding the German Longsword on this site and said, "That's what I want to learn." I purchased Christian Tobler's book "Fighting with the German Longsword". I got him the Cold Steel plastic sword to start working with but this will eventually lead to a desire to purchase a cutting sword.
I'm a little confused on the designation "longsword" vs. "bastard sword" or "hand-an-a-half" sword. Mr. Tobler uses them interchangebly in his book. Based on the information on this site, however, I've inferred that "longswords" were primarily used two-handed and bastard sword/H&H were primarily one-handed but could be used two-handed. Is this correct?
Are both swords appropriate for the type of longsword fighting (Lietchenauer), or German or Italian longsword, described by Mr. Tobler and others, or was the bastard sword used in a different manner?
Thanks. May it be blessed.
Todd
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2009 16:35:25 GMT
The civilian longsword was a light bladed, two-handed affair. That is not to say that you couldn't use a bastard or hand-and-a-half sword for practice or sparring, just that you'd lose the reach advantage that a long(er)sword offers. For the purposes of training, at least in the beginning you probably want to opt for a Type XIIa as it is longer and lighter than the greatswords (another ubiquitous term) of Type XIIIa, which were designed for harder targets. Hope that helps.
Maybe Tom or some of the others who actually train in the German or Italian fighting styles will weigh in and correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2009 16:36:49 GMT
Ah, the old bastard/hand-and-a-half/longsword question.
The thing about these terms is that they're not really standardized terminology so it all tends to be a giant mess. Some define "hand-and-a-half" as a measure of hilt length and "longsword" as a measure of blade length, making many hand-and-a-half swords into longswords and vice versa. And some mean that all bastard swords were hand-and-a-halfs, but not all hand-and-a-halfs were bastard swords.
My personal understanding is that a hand-and-a-half is a sword with a grip for two hands that is still smaller then an actual two-hander, a longsword is a sword longer then a common single-handed sword and usually fitted with a hand-and-a-half hilt, and a bastard sword is a later form of longsword that showed up around the Renaissance as opposed to Medieval times.
As you can tell, it gets confusing fast. This is the reason most of us prefer to use the Oakeshott Typology when talking medieval sword types. Especially since terms like "longsword" or "hand-and-a-half" doesn't say a lot about the actual blade type, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2009 16:51:41 GMT
XVa and XVIIIa and b would be the best types for the longsword fencing. XIIa were used before the peak of the longsword art and were not perfect for it, they are more flexible and less tapered and thrust oriented than they should be for longsword fencing. Type XIIa isn't necessarily any lighter or smaller than XIIIa. Both are greatsword types of 13th and 14th centuries, XIIa is just more tapered. XIIa was actually more rare than XIIIa during that period. People get the picture that XIIa is lighter version of the greatswords of the 13th and 14th century than the XIIIa just because two best known reproductions of them are Hanwei/Tinker Great sword of war and VA practical longsword. And both types were historically made in many variations of size and types of use in mind.
Back to original question, Hanwei/Tinker Longsword is probably the best sword for longsword fencing in our price range. And for longsword fencing you do want a sword with a grip long enough for both hands with some extra space even. In medieval times most of the swords used for longsword fencing would be called longswords or even just swords. There were no terms like hand and a half or bastard then. French term epee bastarde came later and it was just a french term for longsword, the sword which hangs on the saddle when you ride. On your hip was ordinary sword.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2009 1:40:38 GMT
Thank you all very much for the education. I'm seriously considering the H/T Longsword
Todd
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2009 2:27:27 GMT
XVa and XVIIIa and b would be the best types for the longsword fencing. XIIa were used before the peak of the longsword art and were not perfect for it, they are more flexible and less tapered and thrust oriented than they should be for longsword fencing. Type XIIa isn't necessarily any lighter or smaller than XIIIa. Both are greatsword types of 13th and 14th centuries, XIIa is just more tapered. XIIa was actually more rare than XIIIa during that period. People get the picture that XIIa is lighter version of the greatswords of the 13th and 14th century than the XIIIa just because two best known reproductions of them are Hanwei/Tinker Great sword of war and VA practical longsword. And both types were historically made in many variations of size and types of use in mind. Back to original question, Hanwei/Tinker Longsword is probably the best sword for longsword fencing in our price range. And for longsword fencing you do want a sword with a grip long enough for both hands with some extra space even. In medieval times most of the swords used for longsword fencing would be called longswords or even just swords. There were no terms like hand and a half or bastard then. French term epee bastarde came later and it was just a french term for longsword, the sword which hangs on the saddle when you ride. On your hip was ordinary sword. This is a damn fine post Luka +1 I practive with wasters at my longsword class then do some dry drills with my VA Kriegschwert and I've got to say it does remarkably well. Any Longsword can be used in either the German or Italian Schools but some are clearly better put to the techniques than others. The Hanwei/Tinker Longsword is one of the best choices in our price range.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2009 11:07:49 GMT
just wanted to thrown in a vote fro the Valiant Armory / Atrim I-Beam as a worthy longsword trainer as well.
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