Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 17:30:48 GMT
Okay, this may be a stupid question, but what is the distinction between a knife and a sword? Where does one end and the other begin? Like if you take a long knife and compare it to a short sword, what makes the first a long knife and the second a short sword?
I've seen the machete classified as both a knife and sword, for example.
Is based in the purpose of the tool? I consider a sword to be 100% weapon. It's not what I would think to use in any other context than battle whereas a knife is more multi-purpose in its intended use. I can use it for battle, but it also lends itself well to other things - cutting cloth, hacking through jungles (machete), eating dinner.... But that only fits the shorter, more common knives, imo. There are a lot of knives which have one purpose and one purpose only.
I've done a search on the forum using "sword knife difference" as my search criteria, turned up some interesting threads, but none which seemed to answer this question.
Any thoughts, insights?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 17:40:46 GMT
Okay, this may be a stupid question, but what is the distinction between a knife and a sword? Poh-tay-toh, poh-tah-toh.......... ;D My initial impulse was to answer your question "about 18 inches...." Or, to quote Crocodile Dundee, "That's not a knife. THIS is a knife." But seriously, I suspect your results here will be the same as you've already found - inconclusive. When does a boat become a ship? Size? Then why are giant nuclear subs still called boats?
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on Sept 6, 2009 17:55:24 GMT
For your consideration. I'm thinking of doing a video comparison between the Windlass models Pugio and Lakonian.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 18:04:01 GMT
This is one of those never ending questions,but you already know that. Using the purpose of the tool is a good place to start. Design intention-tool or weapon? Then, is it more sword like or knife like? Unfortunately the "gray area" between definitely sword and definitely knife is huge. In many cases you just decide what you think it is.
A good example of this problem are the monster bowie knives carried by Confederate troops in the American Civil War; many are large knives, some are short swords, and many are somewhere in between.
These are just my thoughts, hope they help, K
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Sept 6, 2009 18:10:40 GMT
The difference between a knife and a sword is the difference between a dagger and a dirk.
(it's what you call it, nothing more)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 19:50:23 GMT
Ingrained technical distinctions, muddled by usage in popular speech.
That is the only difference.
M.
|
|
|
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 6, 2009 20:07:07 GMT
Okay, this may be a stupid question, but what is the distinction between a knife and a sword? Poh-tay-toh, poh-tah-toh.......... ;D My initial impulse was to answer your question "about 18 inches...." Or, to quote Crocodile Dundee, "That's not a knife. THIS is a knife." But seriously, I suspect your results here will be the same as you've already found - inconclusive. When does a boat become a ship? Size? Then why are giant nuclear subs still called boats? I can answer the last question much better than the first. a boat (often called a "small boat") is less then 65 feet in length while anything longer is a ship (the USCG calls them "Cutters" out of tradition dating back to sail ships of the revenue fleet started in 1790 that was our origin). all ships are boats but not all boats are ship. thus the most senior chief on a navy or coast guard ship is known, correctly, as the "Chief Of the Boat" or "COB" as for knives and swords well I think you have to look at the design and shape as well as size but no matter how you do it there are going to be snags. look at a grosse messer: most people will call it a sword, it is used like a sword but it is shaped like a knife and its name litterally means "big knife". yet Roman swords which were often shorter than a grosse messer are still swords and pretty much anyone who sees them will call them a sword. so to use the Flynn defense: I may not be able to define it, but I know it when I see it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 20:27:39 GMT
Knife or sword... well like everyone says, its an ongoing debate. All I know is that a lot of it has to do with the intended use of the knife/sword. Here's an example: I remember seeing an Iron Chef Japan episode way back when... where the challenging chef brought his own knives to the competition. The knife he used most often (even to do small cutting chores) was this monstrous 22" long blade with a good 8" long hilt. Now - 22" blade with an 8" long hilt, well that's a freaking sword right? Nope. It is a knife, he called it a knife, the competition called it a knife its a knife. Why? By length alone its a sword... hell if it had a different blade geometry and hilt it'd be a wakizashi or a short kokatana. But because it looked like a giant version of the knives Japanese chefs use (like almost double in size) its a knife...that and its used as a knife. On the other hand some wakizashi have blades as short as 16"... and are called swords. Personally I think it has a lot to do with design and intended purpose. When it looks like a big knife and is used like a big knife - ie knifely duties of cutting food, cloth, twine etc then its a knife, despite size. If it looks like a sword and is wielded as in combat then its a sword. Of course there's still a gray area but well there always will be. Btw a point of interest regarding knives and knifework - here's Iron Chef Sakai peeling an apple with a 14" blade. EDIT: buggers - this video is not embeddable. Here's the url. Sam
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 20:33:54 GMT
What are Bayonets considered when used with their handle - not attached to a gun? Some that I've seen have upwards of 17 inch blades. Is this a big knife, or a small sword?
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Sept 6, 2009 20:52:42 GMT
It's a bayonet.
|
|
|
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 6, 2009 21:17:11 GMT
Sam I remember that episode. man I loved the olds Iron Chef shows from Japan. neither of the two American versions could stand up to them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 21:29:23 GMT
When does a boat become a ship? Size? Then why are giant nuclear subs still called boats? Ships have masts. Boats don't. Since you brought up the ship/boat thing.
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on Sept 6, 2009 21:37:40 GMT
What about a sailboat?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 21:42:30 GMT
Popular terminology does not always agree with technical definitions. And since "small craft" (those under 65 feet) tend to be more popular with people who care less about the tradition and the technical part of sailing, their terminology is pretty squishy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 22:10:23 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 22:45:55 GMT
Tom,
I love the old Iron Chef series too. They only come on at 1am CST now on the "Fine Living Channel" and of course only as reruns. Now and then I catch them... but they're not on every day either so it makes catching them kinda hit or miss.
I hate the American Iron Chef shows. Epic Fail! Nowhere near the pageantry, style or cooking skills. I was so excited when they made an Iron Chef America and I watched its opening battles... and got turned off when Chef Sakai lost to Chef Battoli... Chef Sakai's dishes were wonderfully plated and beautifully constructed of exotic ingredients and complex tastes while Battoli's dishes looked like he'd thrown them together in haste and were basically pasta, meat, garlic, salt and pepper. Ok I exaggerated on Battoli's dishes but they were your run of the mill Italian fare you'd find in any 3 star Italian restaurant. While quite good I'm sure they're not "Iron Chef" material. Now Sakai's dishes... man my mouth watered watching him make it and the final products made me want to jump into my television to wrestle the food away from those judges who failed to appreciate it for what it was... pure artistic food genius!
All subsequent episodes have been failures in my mind.
Anyway have we determined what's a knife and what's a sword yet? lol
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 23:12:51 GMT
Yes, lets throw in the Saxes, We have scramasax, Langsax, Sax, Some of the Saxes are sword lengh, but are they a sword???
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2009 0:20:04 GMT
Well, if you have an account over there. Toss them the definition I provided (it was given to me by the Captain of the USS Roosevelt in 2002).
|
|
|
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 7, 2009 0:42:24 GMT
on the ship-boat subject I speak of U.S. Coast Guard regulation of which I am deeply familiar. this regulation does not neccesarily apply to non-USCG vessles but it the best and clearest definition I know.
as with swords and knives no one rule can cover all situations.
again: "you'll know it when you see it" is still the best rule in my mind.
Sam, I agree with you on that opening battle. it was obviously rigged! Fish Sakai does NOT lose fish battles.
I have watched quite a few of the Iron Chef America and it isn't too terrible especially when you compare it to the previous attempt by William Shatner: Iron Chef USA. THAT one was an epic fail. Iron chef America is merely mediocre.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2009 0:46:46 GMT
He may not have made the "better" dishes, but let those 2 set up competing sushi shops and see who's out of business in a week...
|
|