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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2009 4:55:02 GMT
Is there anywhere I could get a historical chainmail hauberk, or something of the sort- for under 300 USD? I am looking mostly for historical accuracy as opposed to comfort, and I am afraid this may be hard to do at this price point (rivited mail). Anyway, if anyone knows of any makers, it would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2009 6:46:29 GMT
um. No. Just no. You can get butted mail for that price, but it's not period. And it's cheap, and just wearing it or hanging it in any way will produce wear on it that will eventually cause it to come apart. It's not bad as an expensive costume, but that's all it's good for.
Now, there Is someone out there who does Welded chain for a reasonable price, but, again, it's not period.
But riveted chain... You're talking about thousands of individual rings joined by hand and riveted. That's a lot of time and effort and skill (they're small rivets). That's some serious money.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2009 9:59:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2009 13:27:57 GMT
I actually have one of those shirts, M. - Bruce is an alright guy, but these are the modern dome-riveted variety, not the more period accurate wedge riveted (which is costly, most of what you see on the internet is India-made).
There are smiths out there who do chain, but since they do it all by hand (in some cases, even drawing the wire out themselves) you're not gonna spend less than $1200 on an authentic-style hauberk.
If you're not planning on doing any heavy fighting (SCA, re-enactment groups, etc) then I'd get the one M. listed - you're not going to beat that price for riveted mail. Also keep in mind, these shirts were made with everyman in mind, so you may need to alter it somewhat; one thing I hate is to have that large billowy sleeve at the end of your arm, I need to remove some of the links on mine.
Actually, that's a vest M. put up; if that works for you, go for it. I went with the full hauberk.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2009 1:22:02 GMT
Yeah, the full hauberk was 500USD.
Check up the Maille Research Society. Erik Schmid does some of the most accurate stuff. He also has two journals, one of which is free -- email him and ask.
M.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2009 4:00:34 GMT
The stuff by Ring Mesh looks good and seems to be a pretty great price, but it isn't historical since it's welded and not rivited. Were I to be putting a kit together though I'd most likely go with them due to the price. I think I've heard good things about them over on MyArmory as well.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2009 10:22:05 GMT
So it looks like it's down to Ring Mesh, and the site M. linked. I do actually plan on some SCA bouts, so which of the two would be best for that? I am new to this whole armour thing, so thank you for all the help!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2009 11:54:45 GMT
The one I linked is probably best for SCA bouts. I don't know how durable welded stainless can be.
M.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2009 15:03:29 GMT
I understand both stand up pretty well. But the problem is that chain doesn't meet the "Rigid Protection" requirements of the armour for the important spots. You'll still need a kidney belt.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2009 22:34:53 GMT
That is the cheapest riveted mail I have seen to date. Note that it is a vest, not a shirt. They are advertising it as tough enough for SCA combat. It may not last more then a year... but at least it wont fall apart the first time you wear it. I just bought myself a riveted Stainless steel Bishop Mantle for $165 from Von Sussen. Von Sussen has Mail hauberk for about $400. You can do some haggling with them. Van Sussen has a good reputation for good mail, but if you only need it for display go with the $200 one. Here is Von Sussen if you want to check it out: sussen.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page15.htmlWelded stainless will be the most durable, maintenance free and error free. In riveted mail the rivets are so tiny that it is often hard be sure how secure they are when you rivet them. When putting in thousands of tiny rivets a small percentage of the rivets are not going be perfectly set as a matter of human error. I doubt the quality control in period was better, probably worse. There is a small percentage of rivets that are going to fall out just from the friction. In any riveted mail, even brand new, you are going to find a few missing rivets. My new bishops mantel had about 6 rings missing rivets and two rings that were not even drilled. As Taran said, for SCA fighting you are certainly going to need hard elbows. I have seen people get away without the kidney belt, but I don't recommend it. I would also recommend a hard point on your shoulders. Hard points over mail are not unhistorical in the 13th century. For Welded mail get a quote for this guy: weldedchainmail.com/products/Be patient, it took him a week to get back to me. He makes welded mail in mild, stainless, bronze and titanium. Judging by the prices he has listed for his aventails, he is not cheap.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2009 1:04:46 GMT
That Von Sussen hauberk looks really nice, I don't remember seeing that before. I think I might prefer that over the Ring Mesh one if I were putting a kit together. Speaking of which, thanks to this thread I now really want to. I guess I'd better find myself a job soon.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2009 11:54:31 GMT
Always helps to have a job. Then find an SCA event or RennFaire or someone who has a hauberk. Handle it and try it on to see how heavy it is and how it feels to wear. Then you will start saving your money for the lightest weight hauberk you can find. Price the welded titanium just for laughs. What I really wanted was a suit of titanium plate. Thin as a Coor's can but can't dent it with a 12 pound hammer. Oh well, we all want something we can't have.
yis, K
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2009 18:00:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2009 19:32:14 GMT
Yea, Erik Schmid is probably the premier source that I know of for period-accurate chainmail but even he'll tell you that if you can, you should make your own rather than buy it. It IS costly, but again, its mostly labor-intensive.
Wiskyjac- I'm not completely sold on MRL's chainmail...I had one of their butted hauberks against one I'd gotten from Bruce over at wholesalearmor.com and Bruce's had tighter links that held together better than MRL's. Their riveted would be ok I guess...if you're more for looks than functionality it isn't a bad way to go.
I caught my riveted hauberk from Bruce on a sale, altho I'll venture to say its worth the full price if you can handle it. I got my riveted coif from Von Sussen- too bad its blackened. Anyone know how to remove that?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2009 23:04:09 GMT
Ebon, put it in a barrel of sand and roll it around the castle for a few days. It'll shine right up. Takes the rust off too. Just another job for the squires.lol
yis, K
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2009 2:27:34 GMT
Nice find. Ask for a full picture before you buy. All make sure you can return if for full refund if it does not fit.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2009 3:14:40 GMT
Hey tsafa; funny you should ask that. On the sites MRL or KOA, they describe the shirt, but only show a picture of the chain mail links? There is a 30 day 100% satisfaction guarantee. I find out next week Thanks for your interest
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2009 17:16:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2009 19:20:18 GMT
Kenny, you're a godsend, thanks man! Now, if I can just get the wife preggers, I'll have my squire! My daughters are too old and girlyfied now to do anything with their hands that might scratch their nail polish. LOL
I thought I'd read somewhere I could give it a vinegar bath but I'm waiting to see if anyone else thinks so...
One last thing, and Bill already noted this, but if you're looking for maintenance-free over authenticity, get the welded chain- there won't be any 'weak spots' per se like on butted (which just slowly opens on its own) or riveted (where the rivets can pop).
I've been courting the idea of using a Ringmesh hauberk over my riveted one...
wisky, you never mentioned what you intended for this shirt- gonna be fighting in it? The shirt I got from Bruce was flat-ring riveted mail...looks like a buncha washers, truth be told.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2009 19:32:55 GMT
My friend Paladin, the daughters are now at the perfect age to attract squires. The girls get to hang out and look girlyfied, you get to put the afforementioned young men to work cleaning your armor, and the squires get to show off in front of the girls. See everybody wins.
You might try the vinegar bath on a small section to see what it does.
HTH, K
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